Remembering the life and legacy of Pope Benedict XVI
CAN GO WITH WITH PRAYERS STARTING ON MONDAY, DAVID. DAVE DADE THANK YOU VERY MUCH. FATHER GERALD MURRAY IS PASTOR OF THE HOLY FAMILY CHURCH IN NEW YORK. HE RECEIVED HIS DOCTORATE AT AT THE VATICAN IN 1998, ALSO SERVED AS A NAVY CHAPLAIN FROM 1994-2005. FATHER, GREAT TO SEE YOU, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, APPRECIATE IT. HE WILL ALWAYS HAVE IN HISTORY AN ASTERISK NEXT TO HIS NAME FOR ONE OF THE FEW POPES IN HISTORY TO RESIGN. WHY DID HE RESIGN? >> HE WAS NOT ABLE TO CONTINUE THE HARD TASK OF BEING POPE. HE SPOKE ABOUT
BOTH THE PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL TOLL THAT IT PUT UPON HIM TO BE THE LEADER OF THE CHURCH. HE WAS ALWAYS MORE OF AN ACADEMIC, EVEN WHEN HE WORKED IN THE VATICAN AS THE HEAD OF THE CONGREGATION DOCTRINE OF FAITH. HE STILL KEPT WRITING ARTICLES AND BOOK IN — BOOKS IN HIS FREE TIME. I THINK HE FOUND IT DIFFICULT, DAVID, TO BE MANAGING THE VATICAN, SPEAKING TO THE WORLD, TRAVELING, HOSTING ALL KINDS OF EVENTS AT THE VATICAN, SO I THINK HE WANTED TO GO BACK TO WHAT HE REALLY LOVED WHICH WAS TO BE A PROFESSOR AND
SOMEONE WHO MEDITATED ON CATHOLIC TEACHING. DAVID: IT IS EXTRAORDINARY THAT HE WAS KIND OF SANDWICHED BETWEEN TWO POPES WHO RELISHED — MAYBE NOT RELISHED THE SPOTLIGHT, BUT DID VERY WELL
COMFORTABLE AS THOSE TWO MEN WERE. DAVID: BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE NOT ONLY WAS A GREAT SCHOLAR, AND I’VE READ A COUPLE OF HIS BOOKS, THEY’RE MAGNIFICENT BOOKS. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE DID A LOT OF WORK IN THE BACKGROUND. I REMEMBER COVERING LATIN AMERICA WHEN HE WAS FIGHTING LIBERATION THEOLOGY. THIS WAS THE THEOLOGY THAT TOOK ON MARXISM AND SOME OF THE PRIESTS ACTUALLY BECAME MARXIST REVOLUTIONARIES. HE FOUGHT THAT HARD AND WON THE BATTLE, DIDN’T HE? >> HE DID. LIBERATION THEOLOGY WAS DISCREDITED WITH THE FALL OF COMMUNISM. HE FOUGHT THAT BATTLE WELL. HE
WROTE TWO DOCUMENTS AT THE REQUEST OF JOHN PAUL II TO TRY AND SET FORTH CATHOLIC TEACHING THAT MARXIST THEORY IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH CATHOLIC TEACHING, CATHOLIC UNDERSTANDING OF HUMANITY AND FREEDOM. HE ALSO CONFRONTED OTHER ISSUES IN THE CHURCH WHICH WERE VERY CONTENTIOUS. HE WAS REALLY THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND CRACKING DOWN ON SEXUALLY-ABUSIVE PRIESTS. I KNOW JOHN PAUL II TASKED HIM WITH THAT, BUT THERE WAS A FAMOUS CASE WITH THE HEAD OF THE LEGION OF CHRIST — DAVID: HE WAS IN MEXICO, RIGHT? >> HE WAS IN MEXICO AND IN ROME, BUT HE WAS A SERIAL SEX ABUSER
OF THE WORST KIND, AND IT WAS CARDINAL RATZINGER WHO IN THE END BROUGHT DOWN JUSTICE UPON HIM, AND HE WAS SIDELINED. HE DID A LOT OF GOOD FOR THE CHURCH, MUCH OF IT, AS YOU SAY, BEHIND THE SCENES. DAVID: RIGHT NOW THE CHURCH, SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT’S IN CRISIS, BUT AT THE VERY LEAST THERE IS A SPLIT BETWEEN THE CONSERVATIVE FACTIONS, AND I THINK IT’S FAIR TO SAY THAT BENEDICT MOST RESEMBLED THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE OF THE CHURCH, AND THE LIBERAL FACTIONS EXEMPLIFIED BY THE CURRENT POPE, POPE FRANCIS. HOW DID AS A GUY AS A
FORMER POPE LIVING WITH A CURRENT POPE, WHICH IS A VERY UNUSUAL CIRCUMSTANCE, DID HE TRY TO INFLUENCE POPE FRANCIS IN ANY WAY IN TERMS OF BEING MORE TRADITIONAL AND CONSERVATIVE? >> HE MOSTLY — POPE BENEDICT MOSTLY KEPT TO HIMSELF, KID NOT ISSUE DOCUMENTS AND STATEMENTS. HE MADE A COUPLE OF EXCEPTIONS, ONE OF WHICH WAS ON THE QUESTION OF OPTIONAL CELIBACY FOR FREESES BECAUSE THAT WAS — PRIESTS BECAUSE THAT WAS A TOPIC THAT ASCENDED ON THE AMAZON WHICH WAS HELD IN THE VATICAN. AND THERE WAS A MOVE BY THAT CITY NOD TO HAVE THE CELIBACY BECOME
AN OPTIONAL THING. THEN IT LOSES ITS MEANING BECAUSE YOU GET TO CHOOSE RATHER HAND IMITATE THING CHRIST AT THE REQUEST OF THE CHURCH. SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS HE AND CARDINAL SERA, A CARDINAL IN ROME FROM AFRICA, THEY AUTHORED A SMALL BOOK DEFENDING PREVIOUSLY CELIBACY AS BEING A GREAT GIFT OF GOD TO THE CHURCH. ON OTHER TOPICS HE DID WRITE A DOCUMENT ABOUT SEX ABUSE AND HOW TO HANDLE IT, AND HE IDENTIFIED THAT ITS ROOTS LAY IN KIND OF ’60s IDEOLOGY, YOU KNOW, MiG GOES. THE SEX REVOLUTION — CAN ANYTHING GOES. HE LOVED HUMANITY SO MUCH
THAT HE DIDN’T WANT HEM TO LIVE DOWN TO THEIR WORST BASED INSTINCTS. HE WANTED TO LIFT THEM UP TO THEIR BEST POSSIBLE. DAVID: NOW, HE WAS OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE KNOWN THE VATICAN II THE COUNCIL, RIGHT, WHICH TOOK PLACE IN THE 1960s. HE PLAYED, ACTUALLY PLAYED A PART MANY THAT, IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THAT. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THAT’S WHAT LED TO THE LIBERAL MOVEMENT MT. CATHOLIC CHURCH, BUT HE DEFENDED IT. >> HE ACTUALLY WAS MORE OF A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN BACK IN THE EARLY ’60s, BUT THEN FOLLOWING 1968 WHEN THERE WAS A STUDENT REVOLT
IN EUROPE, HE WAS HORRIFIED TO SEE THAT PEOPLE WERE TURNING AWAY FROM FROM TRUTH AND MORALITY AND EMBRACE AN ANYTHING GOES ATTITUDE. AND IN THE REALM OF RELIGION, HE SAID CHRISTIANITY IS GOD’S ACTION IN THE WORLD. IT’S THE NOT OUR CREATION. AND, THEREFORE, IF GOD ACTS, WE HAVE TO STEP BACK, LEARN WHAT GOD SAYS AND DOES AND THEN, YOU KNOW, RESPOND TO IT IN FAITH. SO, YEAH, HE BECAME A GREAT DEFENDER IN A TIME OF DOCTRINAL CHAOS OF THE STABILITY OF CATHOLIC TEACHING, YOU KNOW? WHAT JESUS TAUGHT 2,000 YEARS AGO HAS THE SAME VALUE TODAY.
DAVID: YOU KNOW, THE VATICAN IS A WORLDWIDE INSTITUTION, OF COURSE, AND AS SUCH IT GETS POLITICAL FROM TIME TO TIME. THIS CURRENT POPE HAS MADE CERTAIN MOVEMENTS IN THE POLITICAL SPHERE PARTICULARLY IN DEALING WITH CHINA THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE QUESTION. I MEAN, THEY MADE A DEAL WITH THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT TO GIVE THEM AUTHORITY IN ACTUALLY APPOINTING BISHOPS, WHICH IS AN EXTRAORDINARY THING. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY IT’S NONSENSE, TO HAVE AN ATHEIST GOVERNMENT, COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT BE INVOLVED IN THAT. DID POPE BENEDICT SPEAK OUT ON THOSE ISSUES AT ALL? >> WELL, DURING HIS PONTIFICATE, HE
TURNED DOWN MAKING A DEAL WITH THE RED CHINESE COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT BECAUSE HE DID NOT WANT TO SURRENDER THE POWER OF THE CHURCH INTO THEIR HANDS. POPE FRANCIS IS MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE IN NEGOTIATING WITH COMMUNISTS, AND, YOU KNOW, MY OWN VIEW IS YOU CAN’T TRUST COMMUNISTS EVEN IF THEY’RE SMILING AT YOU AND SHAKING YOUR HAND. OF IN FACT, THAT’S PROBABLY THE LAST MOMENT YOU WANT TO TRUST THEM. POPE BENEDICT, NO, HE SUPPORTED WHAT WE CALL THE UNDERGROUND CHURCH, THE CATHOLIC CHINESE FAITHFUL. SAD TO SAY POPE FRANCIS, I THINK, HAS MADE A BIG MISTAKE HERE, AND CARDINAL
ZEN IN HONG KONG HAS SAID THE SAME THING, AND HE’S ON THE SCENE. DAVID: WE’VE ONLY GOT 5 SECONDS, I HAVE TO ASK, BENEDICT’S PREDECESSOR BECAME A STABILITY. DO YOU THINK — A STABILITY. DO YOU THINK THE SAME MIGHT HAPPEN? >> YOU NEVER KNOW. HE WAS A VERY HOLY MAN. I MET HIM A COUPLE OF TIMES. HE RED MATED — RAIDUATEDDED
