Spiral: From the Book of Saw | Review & Recap

people we’re slowly spiraling out of control 
see what i did there as we review our first  
our second i should say big movie that we’ve seen 
in theaters this year after nobody man i wish we  
had nicer things to say i’m just gonna let that 
sit where it is we’re reviewing spiral from the  
book of saw the latest movie from saw director 
darren lin bausman starring chris rock and  
samuel l jackson oh man chris were you expecting 
this to be your next big theater going event i  
most certainly was not i think this movie is 
going to stick with me for quite some time and  
i’ll leave it there and not at all for the reason 
that you guys will think all that more stay tuned
all right what’s up people we’re back it’s another 
episode of the talking tv podcast chris of course  
my loyal co-host is here professor pat is here 
guys i i i think that this is starting to be like  
a moment because we haven’t had a movie like this 
in almost two years now i feel like the last time  
we had like an event like this was 2019’s black 
christmas which you guys famously had to drag  
me to in order to get me

to actually watch that 
movie i mean before we get into anything related  
to like what this movie is supposedly related to 
like first off how are you guys doing second of  
all like how are you feeling psychologically and 
emotionally after seeing this movie yeah i mean  
i think i’m shocked that black christmas was 
a better film than this one i’m just going to  
come right out and say that i mean that is a bold 
statement but yeah this is sort of i guess i don’t  
know it’s like maybe a mini tradition for our 
little group friend group here where we uh when  
there’s a terrible horror movie in town we call 
a pat we say hey pat we got it we got a double  
whammy for you let’s go not only see it together 
but then podcast about it yes absolutely i mean  
again we sort of had this last year with fantasy 
island but that was just me and chris pat we we  
were unfortunately not graced with your presence 
at that time but like how you feeling buddy i mean  
i feel like this movie took a lot out of all of 
us but you most of all um i’m just gonna say black  
christmas definitely seems like a classic work 
of literature oh my god like top top 10 book list  
material compared to this film and it’s funny 
because apparently saw is based on a book
yeah i i don’t want to put i don’t want to put 
like the the craft uh behind this film down i’ll  
i’ll say right up front that i will the no no no 
it was a good looking film it was decently edited  
i thought a lot of the montage sequences mostly 
of uh you know those uh those deaths that we come  
to expect from a saw movie uh this is the first 
one i’ve ever seen so i guess the the ones you  
expect from these movies uh i thought they were 
pretty well put together so the craft of the movie  
is one thing and i’m i’m definitely not going to 
be talking about that for most of this episode  
i i will we’ll say it’s good but the story is 
that’s that’s where my uh bad point’s gonna be  
i feel like certain moments of this movie were 
like just like certain of the police officers  
were just gonna like erupt and transform into like 
other like police officer caricature stereotypes  
that i’ve seen from previous installments like 
when chris rock was yelled at the captain i  
was expecting her to transform into like the 
captain from beverly hills conference always  
yelling at eddie murphy that like ahmed was 
doing the impression of in beverly hills cop  
that’s what i was expecting after watching after 
watching certain of the scenes in this movie and  
i’ll just let that kind of sit where it is 
people so i guess without further ado let’s  
try and sort of sum up this movie as if our 
thoughts haven’t already been made clear enough  
i mean it’s really weird kind of that the next 
installment from the soft franchise is a franchise  
that is one of many many horror franchises that 
has already had way too many sequels would come  
from the brain of chris rock of all people but 
hey i guess he really wanted to do a saw movie  
and i mean the majority of the movie is 
a pretty typical police procedural as far  
as everything goes you know it’s like oh 
we got to investigate this serial killing  
you know starts off with the killing then chris 
rock and his partner have to go in and investigate  
it you know and then they’re like oh man this 
could be the jigsaw killer back from the dead  
except there’s a bunch of spirals just drawn 
everywhere and i feel like that’s like just all  
that i could give away about this movie plot wise 
without actually giving too much away but i mean  
look i guess to put this in comparison i saw 
another movie wrath of man earlier this week  
and while that movie i think started off a 
little rough at the very least it got good  
by the end this movie started off questionable at 
best and by the end i was just like i i was doing  
that thing where i i normally shouldn’t 
do but where i’m just giving commentary  
throughout the movie and i’m like oh [ __ 
] the minute i start to give commentary  
the movies lost me just among many other things i 
mean chris just for starters how annoyed were you  
by me talking like near the end or was it like a 
saving grace from the actual quality of the movie  
uh for once i wasn’t annoyed um so we’ll 
leave it at that but let me just say this  
i think it’s time to jump into our spoiler free 
review boys and really start chipping away at this  
uh this this gift i don’t know sorry good enough 
with the transition there but this is spoiler free  
yeah no you just got to say the 
words like you mean them you know  
like uh like i’m sure they were written in the 
book that is based on this movie apparently  
so i don’t know i mean spoiler free review man 
i don’t want to take pat’s two word review so  
before i go any further pat you you kind of had a 
really i’d say profound way of describing this one  
i don’t think it’s that profound it’s uh you know 
for me uh overall i i basically summoned down the  
two words and that’s it sucked like i i don’t 
know like i kind of wanted to like it you know  
i i definitely got into some of the you know 
dom’s gonna hate me for this but i i thought  
the acting was perfect for this type of movie 
it’s because it’s it’s you know it’s a campy  
horror movie where like if you see it in a theater 
with a crowd like the movie us you’re basically  
going to be talking through it you’re going to 
be laughing you’re going to have this experience  
with the crowd you know maybe we didn’t really see 
it with that big of a crowd uh you know it’s like  
we’re still socially distancing there’s not that 
many people in the theater um you know really only  
those that have been vaccinated and really willing 
to go out there and uh you know basically uh  
attempt theaters again are there and 
so you’re not getting that energy from  
you know people because they’re just quite 
frankly not there so this might have been  
something that was a little more uh palatable 
with other people in the audience yeah yeah i  
think you know it’s it’s certainly great to have 
theaters back and i forgot how much i missed it  
and i think this movie would have been even 
worse had i watched it at home on hbo max or  
something that’s for sure i just you know i’m 
just trying to figure out like what they were  
trying to say with this one because i mean while 
saw i’ve only seen the first one the original one  
i enjoy it a lot i’ve seen it twice now and it’s 
a really good watch both times i mean it is kind  
of like a game changing horror film and obviously 
a lot of horror franchises they’re easy to make  
and you know it’s like the whole shock value of it 
so you can keep them coming and they deteriorate  
over time but the one thing i’ve heard about saw 
is like there’s somewhat of a bar of quality above  
some of the rest of the franchises that kind of 
you know go on and on and on and on forever like  
maybe your screams of the world and so it’s just 
strange because i was really excited about the  
trailers like they sold this movie really well i 
thought it looked compelling they showed like the  
four good scenes where chris rock actually was an 
actor and they got you to want to go and see this  
movie if you you saw the trailers if you watch 
the advertisement but clearly that’s just another  
portrayal of how strong marketing can be because 
i feel completely let down i i think the trailer  
editors saw rock’s performance in this movie and 
we’re like oh man we’ve how much footage do we  
actually have here oh we got this much all right 
use it if we’re if we’re going to get beat butts  
and seats we’re going to make this look like yes 
chris rock is literally about to go head-to-head  
with the jigsaw look the one thing i can say 
about the rest of the soft franchise is that i  
as as kind of weird and kind of as grotesque 
as the movies get as time goes on at the  
very least it never stops being this interesting 
commentary on the on the pharmaceutical industry  
which again like i have to give it commending 
for that because at the very least it is still  
trying to say something and this movie certainly 
takes the messaging from the previous saw movies  
but it completely misses the tact if you 
could even call it that you know i guess  
in order to kind of qualify this movie for 
like some of its positives i think that it  
does a good job as far as capturing kind of like 
the police procedural slash mystery element that  
kind of made the first one as engaging as it is 
right that’s kind of the majesty of the first one  
is addition to its low budget it’s not a horror 
movie primarily it’s kind of this mystery thriller  
kind of following in the league of like some of 
the other like late 90s movies and i think it  
captured that really well this movie it feels like 
is trying to do that but like with a more schlocky  
obvious way you know and like the problem is i 
i can’t necessarily say that it it is beneficial  
towards the material because the kills and just 
kind of the overall quality and genre of the  
movie it like is quick cutting and like doing fast 
edits in the middle of these kills and it’s kind  
of like trying to be like oh it’s this like kind 
of fun goofy like mystery thriller on one minute  
but then the next minute it’s like oh no like feel 
bad for these cops it’s like kind of one another  
one of those movies that kind of doesn’t know 
where to pick its lane tonally if that makes any  
sense and i also think that again just before we 
even break down some of the problems even further  
just how kind of intentionally hilarious 
that makes it and not in the best way at all  
well tom let me jump off on your comment there 
like for the most part um i i feel like it’s  
it’s i didn’t see any of the other song movies so 
you’ll have to let me know if the other i’ve only  
seen the first two so yeah so just from knowledge 
of what i’ve heard from other people yeah just let  
me know if if those movies are slightly different 
from what i’m about to describe because i got you  
for the most part in a horror movie you would have 
a character wander into said warehouse or whatever  
and you know then the killer would kind of 
scare them and capture them and do the torment  
to them but the way they do it in this 
particular film is sort of like ocean’s 11 style  
like our sherlock holmes where like chris 
basically you know gets a little gift and  
it’s you know a body part and um you know 
then he basically depending on the body yeah  
well whatever the the case is but he 
sort of you know imagines what happened  
and then we get to see sort of the torture and and 
the whole do you want to play a game and it’s uh  
you know it’s it’s one of those things 
where you you’re getting a flashback  
of this thing off camera that already happened 
and it sort of is diffused like there’s no  
you just know you’re gonna see some gory stuff 
because that’s what these movies are about  
and it takes away sort of these scary like you 
know are they gonna get out of this well the  
answer is no because we already saw the gift 
wrapped body parts so um you know it’s it’s  
stylistically is using that sort of police uh 
procedural and it’s doing this ocean’s eleven  
like you know flashback flash forward all that 
type of weird stuff yeah a lot a lot of weirdos  
deflates the scariness of this film yeah and i 
wanna i wanna go off there at the risk of sounding  
like a psychopath hear me out first guys i think 
because of the way that they shot this and because  
of the way that the majority of like uh you know 
i don’t know what to call them spirals kills  
were sort of diffused prior to you know you know 
they defused them before we saw them i i thought  
that there was no tension there to begin with but 
they could have at least given the fans what they  
want what we got in the at least the first movie 
i can speak to that which was seeing it play out i  
mean we had two of i think there was four or five 
major kills that we just kind of cut before we saw  
the conclusion and then it was resolved off screen 
was it because it was too grotesque was it because  
you know there’s like but but reasons i guess 
maybe but i mean it it didn’t you know because saw  
is was the first one was so disturbing the first 
time i watched it just because of the realism  
of thinking there could be someone this malicious 
out there who would do this to other people  
and we had some of that in this movie like there’s 
a great sequence at the end involving glass and  
that’s all i’ll say because we’re in the spoilers 
the spoiler free section and we got close to the  
level of the first one but then there’s one 
where there’s a body of water and electricity  
and instead of seeing that play out we cut to the 
conclusion and it’s already a very short movie  
so i i just that to me it’s like if you’re already 
gonna have a diffused situation like that one  
why are you not at least going to give the horror 
fans what they want you know i i’m left wanting a  
lot from this but especially in that sort of gory 
shock value department there’s there’s a lot that  
i think they fell short on it’s like they had like 
a person on set for like the days where they were  
shooting the trap scenes and they were like okay 
we can only get like this much footage up to it  
we can almost like you know get it up to like this 
about before it becomes super intuitive you know  
but then what and also i just wanted to point out 
too that like the director definitely knew what he  
was doing when he put samuel jackson in a movie 
and then he makes glass the subject of like one  
of the last couple of kills like right before we 
get to the sam right before like in the same movie  
sam jackson come on i’m not crazy there like 
like they definitely knew what they were doing  
as far as that goes yeah they were calling back 
to one of samuel jackson’s greatest performance  
well you know i basically i was i was going to ask 
you guys this later but you know what’s a better  
movie this our glass oh glass no question 
this makes this makes class like an academy  
award nominee dude and the funniest thing is that 
this is i’ll definitely give this more props for  
entertainment like it’s definitely more engaging 
it gets me like through the scenes quicker and  
like has more engaged than glass but like glass at 
the very least is attempting to do something this  
i have no idea what that what this is attempting 
to do and that kind of brings me back to my last  
point that i want to do before we dive heavily 
into spoilers which is that like look as dumb as  
the traps are as far as that goes we know they’ve 
kind of become the centerpiece of this movie like  
they’re just the fodder right in order to get us 
like the final mastermind right the final boss  
obviously the chris rock is ultimately going to 
have to overcome right that’s part of the gimmick  
of these movies right it’s a series of traps and 
then there’s always the twist at the end and i  
guess it just would have been better if the trip 
if if the twist at the end didn’t like make like  
the most like megalomaniacal like james bond-esque 
mustache twirling like austin powers villain like  
literally some of the traps were like this is too 
ridiculous even jigsaw would have looked at this  
had been like this is excessive you know like 
like [ __ ] like glass like again i can’t spoil  
anything because because again that’s the one 
thing i will give credit to like new filmmakers  
that they at the very least know how to make like 
violence and death like and like still be creative  
with the way that they do it i don’t know what 
that says about people in hollywood but like i can  
only do gold based off of what i see yeah i i know 
exactly what you mean it’s i mean you have to make  
up for how flat the the villain of this film is i 
mean he really was acting school one-on-one like  
dude that guy needs to take some classes the third 
member of the army hammer trio from social network  
he was just god awful man and it was just it was 
atrocious but anyways guys i think it’s safe to  
say that was our spoiler-free section let us 
know what you thought if you have any thoughts  
if you think we left something out if you agree 
if you disagree you guys know where to do that  
write down in the comments below of course 
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like our next piece on saw so dom what are we 
talking about next man uh how does this relate  
to the rest of the saw franchise and like that’s 
the name of the topic but it’s also honestly a  
legitimate question that i have like it kind 
of works as far as a double entendre with like  
double meaning i don’t know if i even got my word 
phrasing right but like i legitimately have no  
idea what this has to do with like the rest of the 
song franchise like i get it the soft franchise  
has like kind of rebooted itself a lot of weird 
ways and it kind of works as far as the whole  
anthological aspect where it’s a different set 
of characters for each movie so it kind of makes  
it easy if like jigsaw is the only thing tying 
together but also obviously well-known people  
well people who are well-versed in the franchise 
should say no the jigsaw the actual character of  
john kramer dies in three i think he comes back 
as like a ghoster like he’s being kept alive  
like some of his disciples or whatever but like oh 
seriously i’m no joke like the movie the way that  
this movie plays out it’s like jigsaw is literally 
only the inspiration and like that’s it like if  
it had been a situation like physically there’s 
like kind of no way that this ties to saw and like  
you would think that would be a strength going 
towards this movie but again i don’t know how  
but like somehow the movie manages to make it like 
to its fault like i don’t know am i crazy here as  
far as like i’m legitimately confused as to how 
this connects to the rest of the song franchise  
um i’m just going to to bring back some uh classic 
like 80s horror movies like uh let’s see friday  
the 13th part five uh the final chapter or the 
new chapter the final chapter that’s right yeah  
i think it’s is it the final chapter i believe 
five is the final chapter yeah i i i forget the  
names but basically no no no no f four is the 
final chapter five is a new beginning i just  
remember it yeah exactly that’s it four i remember 
cause four is the only friday the thirteenth movie  
i’ve actually watched it’s been a while since i’ve 
dipped into the friday the 13th marathons when  
friday the 13th comes around how many people do 
that without their brains melting out their ears  
it’s just the same thing over and over again i 
don’t know they’re fantastically bad but uh the  
main thing is the the new chapter is jason’s kind 
of like going around he’s doing his killing and  
that it turns out that it’s uh just a copycat 
it’s someone that has uh you know angry issues  
going on and he decided to to use jason’s 
mask as a a way of of murdering people and  
it was quite possibly one of the worst movies in 
the franchise i think you know this is probably  
saul’s worst movie in the franchise like we 
have to face it it has nothing to do with the  
previous killer it’s kind of doing its own thing i 
almost feel like get rid of the saw moments right  
this is a saw movie no just it could have been any 
serial killer that you’re tracking down i’ve seen  
plenty of movies uh without pacino has done one of 
these like recently like uh i think bruce willis  
was in a movie recently that is sort of like 
very similar to this it’s very formulaic it’s  
you know it’s well done i’m not i i 
personally think it was well done for  
you know i watch these you know give me those 
five out of ten star uh crappy action films  
uh about a police detective searching for the uh 
serial killer i watch those this is perfectly that  
where it goes wrong is everything that has to do 
with saw because first of all um you know i just  
don’t want to watch uh sadistic killing scenes 
you know it’s just not interested in it and like  
we said earlier basically you’re deflating uh 
the [ __ ] you know it’s like i’m not scared  
because i already know this person dies so what 
am i watching i’m just watching skin be peeled  
off i’m watching you know um fingers be pulled off 
i’m watching you know uh glass go into people it’s  
like why would i want to watch this you know 
it just doesn’t make any sense to me yeah it it  
it kind of felt like an excuse to sort of go back 
to the days of the early internet you know and i’m  
really glad i was young when that was going on 
because that was uh you know thank god this was  
just hollywood because i did have some of those 
moments that made me think okay thank god this is  
just a movie but then it stops or then the writing 
comes in or the acting comes in and yeah something  
comes in to just dilute or defuse the situation 
and so there were those moments where i was in  
my seat and i was like oh god they’re like about 
to peel this guy’s fingers off cut okay now chris  
rock’s in his dad’s apartment where’s his dad it’s 
like no that’s no okay that’s not how you do this  
i just don’t get the direction chris i just 
realized what what my confusion is with this movie  
and you know why because it’s the same confusion 
that we had when we saw joker famously our fifth  
ever episode for this podcast because this movie 
kind of did the exact same thing that joker did  
where it’s just somebody else trying to get their 
indie idea made and they attached it to a big  
franchise a big ip recognizable ip that really 
has nothing to do with zip because at the end of  
the day joker had nothing to do with the batman or 
dc ip and this has nothing to do with the saw ip  
it’s literally just using the ip in order to get 
it’s kind of like shitty schlocky like indie movie  
that never would have been made across and in 
some senses i give those guys credit because  
they’re kind of geniuses as far as working the 
system the problem is is that it’s us the people  
who have to suffer by watching their shitty 
product under the guise of another installment
because i think he’s totally right 
how did i how did i just realize that  
i don’t know i think i’m 
totally right let me tell him
just because i want to further bolster that 
argument and then give you a giant mountain  
to climb over here years old for two years now 
two years i’ve been trying to figure out this  
[ __ ] movie and now this movie of all movies 
is finally the one that makes me realize i’m  
like oh that’s the problem here so i mean i i do 
think i was kind of thinking to myself i was like  
this is this is the town talking you know 
it’s like hey chris rock i know someone um  
i am finally at the point where i’m going to make 
what i want to make and so i’m going to do it and  
you know i probably know the director i probably 
know this guy we can probably get this done i got  
samuel jackson on speed dial you know it’s it 
seems like that was the uh the impetus behind  
this sort of like i’m just going to make a movie 
because i want to make a movie and i respect that  
i think it’s certainly so like it’s tough because 
i don’t want to be too mean on this one because  
i do think it was made for the right reasons 
like i do feel there’s a genuine nature behind  
it i just think the execution is terrible and the 
last thing i’ll say before we turn it over to pat  
it’s like i i think you know the only reason i’ll 
disagree with you dom is joker at least felt like  
a movie you know what this is this you’re right i 
i never felt like this movie started seriously i  
never felt like this movie started the tone was 
never established for me that’s never happened  
on any other film we’ve covered on this podcast 
even in fantasy island the tone was established  
whatever that was whatever the hell that toad was 
yeah no that’s that’s the pattern i’m sorry i just  
know so wanted to get that out i just wanted to 
address the joker thing i think the movie was  
pretty good the joker and my biggest issue with it 
is that i understood the ending but i don’t think  
they actually did anything to earn that ending and 
so therefore that i agree with you on so therefore  
the the movie is sort of fatally flawed because 
it didn’t move me to the place it needed to  
to fully accept the actual final moment of that 
film and so therefore i felt like i invested you  
know whatever it was two hours of time into a 
pretty well done movie and it just fell flat  
you know it didn’t quite do it for me um and 
that’s where i feel the problem with the joker is  
otherwise it was actually pretty decent 
i thought it was an enjoyable movie to go  
see with this movie i you know it’s i agree 
with christian like it really never felt like it  
was a story being told that i cared about 
uh i really thought about the issues  
of the story throughout the whole entire thing 
one you know sam jackson is is chris rock’s father  
and they’re going to have no no that’s not 
what i’m having trouble with i was like
hear me out before you jump to conclusions 
hear me out so the two of them right you  
know sam jackson’s the ex-police chief he you know 
resigned or whatever the case may be kind of never  
explained what happened yeah it’s never explained 
uh chris rock basically is still on the force  
he’s landing this spiral case and he’s gonna try 
to figure it out uh sam jackson you know breaks  
into his apartment and they have some of the best 
uh dialogue ever between the two of them uh like  
the two of them are really rift well against each 
other watch the whole movie just with those two  
the main thing is sam jackson eventually 
invites him over to dinner at his apartment  
to go over the case and movie kind of 
continues and goes on and at one point chris  
rock it just shows up at his father’s apartment 
and there’s this delivery guy and he’s like well  
what’s happening it’s like oh here’s your 
food and oh is my dad home he goes into the  
apartment with the food he drops it off and you 
know oh i guess sam jackson’s nowhere around  
well explain to me in this whole context of 
this film and this is the spoiler because  
basically we learn at the end sam jackson 
got a text message from chris rock’s phone  
and oh meet me at this uh soap factory 
and so sam jackson why he he left and  
tried to meet his son at the soap factory but 
explain to me who just placed an order on grubhub  
gets a message meet me at the soap factory and 
doesn’t cancel the order doesn’t wait for the  
order doesn’t like what this one is because 
pat is the only person that would actually  
take fault with minor grievances like this but it 
doesn’t know i’m so with it because you’re a 100  
percent right explain to me effort and also that 
much effort but tom what restaurant takes like  
two hours to deliver food i gotta know how 
does chris rock get from the police station  
home it like it doesn’t make any sense to me like 
that what if he what if he timed the delivery  
he was like hey i’m ordering it at six 
because i’m gonna be busy getting ready  
because my son’s coming over and i i’m 
on a tight schedule i mean i don’t know
the movie really lost my attention and that’s the 
stuff i’m thinking about uh another that’s safe to  
say another thing that bothered me with the movie 
is all the murders and i’m just going to go with  
the first one all of them yeah all of them so the 
first one we saw the guy you know and it’s in the  
weird flashback format so the guy wakes up in a 
bath water right and it’s running oh wait we’re  
not including the first one oh wait that’s right 
because you guys missed the one that opened the  
movie yeah yeah well we were a couple members well 
theater starts exactly at the time in the movies
you can tell me in a second because i i need i 
need to get this out because it’s just i’m gonna  
forget otherwise it’s weighing on you so the 
guy has these metal things on all his fingers  
and he’s in this bath and it’s let’s play a game  
and he has a choice allegedly he just killed 
an innocent person in a basic routine stop  
and he has a choice he can survive if he basically 
bites down on this piece of metal causing his  
all his fingers to be ripped off but he has to 
do it before the bathtub fills up because if  
the bathtub fills up he’ll be electrocuted and all 
i’m thinking is you’re giving me a choice between  
completely maiming myself and ripping off all 
my fingers which i’ll probably you know if i’m  
in that situation you’re probably gonna bleed 
out anyway and if you don’t then you’re gonna  
have to survive the rest of your life with 
no hands you know you’re on a police medical  
you know disability so you’re gonna not really 
have any money to uh get health care or you know  
assistance like i know it’s like fighter you know 
flight or whatever but like in that situation  
i might just lay back in the water and let the 
electricity take me well and i feel like most of  
these murders it’s like just like why would i want 
to live completely maimed in such a way well yeah  
you might as well manipulation it’s more plot 
manipulation is what it is where it’s like you  
have these people right and it’s not a sense of 
you got to do this and maim yourself or die but  
like kind of we already have this understanding 
of the audience because we’ve seen like how how  
many of these movies were existed before this will 
be eight movies right this is like the ninth movie  
in this franchise overall it’s like we have this 
expectation that we know that in some instance  
like every one of these guys who goes into these 
traps is going to die so like that kind of robs us  
of like the anticipation and like it kind of 
robs this movie of any tension you know it’s the  
constant dependence on the traps and the fact that 
the mystery itself is not even that compelling  
because at least as far as i’m going i i figured 
it out like the minute the minute that like one  
of the guys disappeared or like the minute that 
we saw like chris rock’s like old partner shoot  
the one guy and i put two and two together i’m 
like oh yeah it’s it’s it’s the you know i guess  
spoiler or whatever but like i don’t care this 
movie sucks it’s his partner you know i’m like oh  
it’s him cool okay and i figured that out like 
like the like 15 20 minutes into this hour and  
a half long movie meanwhile i still have another 
hour to sit through of this [ __ ] and it’s just  
the traps and i’m like what um i figured it out 
too christian can we honestly did you think it  
was that let’s be honest like we kind of threw it 
like around what time period did we figure out who  
the real mastermind here was so for me it was 
like hour 20 pat you’d say around the same time  
like 15 hour like 15 20 minute mark um there there 
was one scene uh and it was really this this is a  
weird thing i think something got cut you know 
because it went from a few things got caught  
chris rock is talking with his partner and 
he like drops them off for the day and then  
it cuts to like the next day and his partner 
is now dead and at least that’s what we think  
and there’s a piece of skin that has the tattoo 
that the partner had and you know i think that was  
the absolute moment in which it was like oh okay 
so he that this is someone else’s skin with the  
same tattoo yep you know like that was that was 
the confirmation that it was the partner because  
i was already thinking it was the part like when 
when the partner at some point early on is like  
hey chris rock can i get your cell phone yeah oh 
he’s probably the killer they all have the same  
formula where it’s always like the guy who you 
least expect right it’s always it’s always that  
guy and like again at one point when they did that 
shirt that was a cool twister reveal but now that  
they’ve done that for like like 80 movies in a row 
have done that now it’s like yeah we all know it  
you know like make it somebody obviously as far as 
that goes i think a jigsaw i wouldn’t care if it  
was a zombified jigsaw that would have been cooler 
so dom like a lot of movie making is following the  
formula it works but adding a twist to it you know 
adding something unique that people haven’t seen  
before and you know it’s like we’re going along 
for the ride that we’re familiar with because  
it’s comfortable but we get to see these other 
cool scenes or sequences that you know it’s a new  
way of doing something and you know for example 
i think the coolest thing i’ve seen recently  
is in the tv show the nevers one of the episodes 
they have this cool battle on top of a river  
uh it’s an awesome fight sequence if you haven’t 
seen it uh check it out i think it’s episode three  
but afterwards they had like a five minute feature 
about how they filmed it and i could have sat  
there for two hours just watching a feature of how 
they did this sequence because it’s something that  
you know we’ve seen fight sequences before and but 
this is something that was interesting and unique  
and something that i actually wanted to dive deep 
into behind the scenes i’m not sure what’s in  
the spiral movie that makes me want to understand 
more about how it was made like you know i think  
i would like to know how chris rock 
amped himself up for some of the points  
that’s all i want to see like i think i think i 
think chris rock dedicated a lot of energy into  
this role and it was sort of like you know it’s 
to admit it’s it’s the only way i can describe  
it is it’s overacting but it is so we’ll save 
that we’ll table that for a later segment i just  
kind of want to get my thoughts on here before we 
move to the next segment okay yeah go ahead chris  
i uh i love the conversation you guys just 
had i didn’t care enough to play that game  
oh let me try and i was so checked out i was 
sitting there thinking about a little bit just  
so you could like get a little bit engaged you 
know no i couldn’t i really wanted them to i  
was very excited about this one i watched 
a bunch of people’s trailer reactions like  
horror might be one of my favorite like genres 
in the film in the film realm and i was really  
looking forward to getting a horror film in 
theaters for the first time in a long time  
especially because the last new horror 
film i saw was saint maude which was  
not as much of a train wreck i actually think 
on my ride here i figured out that spiral right  
now is the worst movie i’ve seen this year which 
is so sad yeah it gives st maud any points but i  
just didn’t want to play their game i i really 
didn’t i felt cheated like of even though we  
went to a theater that was pretty reasonable 
which i’m really happy we found in our area  
i just still feel cheated like i would have 
much rather of just hung out with you guys  
and got a burger and just talked about like 
any literally anything else i’m just i feel so  
burned by this one man it’s like so i didn’t 
even want to play that game i didn’t care the  
performances were so lackluster the only moments 
that really gave me some hope were samuel jackson  
and chris rock’s chemistry you only get that twice 
and that’s it i mean it’s the cutting room floor  
man must be littered with a good movie it has 
to be at least i hope it is i feel like i just i  
feel like i disagree with both of you i feel like 
you know again i i i it doesn’t seem like you you  
guys go on like amazon or netflix and watch the 
4.0 or 5.0 out of 10 uh police detective movies  
not at all and i hate cop drops why why would you 
record yourself like that i love these movies and  
the acting in this movie is actually a step above 
some of the things i’ve seen so when you go out  
of your way to watch bad movies of course it’s 
going to but like when it’s the once in a little  
while you know you you got to take these movies 
for what they could get you know so we’ll talk  
about the acting like in the next segment overall 
but people just want to know know your thoughts  
like if you thought this connected to like the 
previous saw movies at all be sure to leave  
them in the comment section below below be sure to 
click the subscribe button and the like button on  
this video and follow us on our socials talking tv 
podcast facebook and instagram so chris i mean we  
you you share a name obviously with the center 
piece of this movie you know chris rock obviously  
and look i’ll admit chris rocket’s top three 
stand-up comedians for me of all time his segment  
uh his stan is hour-long santa special from 04 
which is never scared if i believe is probably  
to me my favorite santa special of all time that [ 
__ ] had me laughing hard for like through several  
years of high school and look i mean rock has 
definitely had an interesting film career to say  
the least obviously from his humble beginnings as 
um uh once again i already forgot his character’s  
name from new jack city but uh he’s incredible in 
that movie he’s a staple of my childhood as the  
voice of the zebra in the madagascar movies marty 
and i i didn’t watch his semi-autobiographical  
movie that came out a couple years ago top 
five but man if this is like his like kind of  
between this and fargo season four as like his 
breakthrough into like the serious acting game  
man is he missing he is missing a couple beats 
as far as that goes in order to like kind of sell  
himself as a serious actor like i don’t know what 
he’s doing in this movie i really don’t he’s like  
trying to like do some riffs for like his comedy 
album one minute he’s doing bug-eyed and all  
serious the next then what he’s trying to like 
he’s one of those actors too that like when he’s  
trying to be like you know sell like how like 
serious he is in a moment he just yells a lot  
and it doesn’t work at all he takes over acting 
to like a whole new level in this movie and it  
really sucks because pat i believe you when i when 
you say that this movie comes with like a place of  
passion and i truly believe that chris rock like 
really didn’t want to make this just based on like  
what the subject matter as far as like what the 
messaging of this movie is but man just he just  
he the chops that he has for being on stage with 
comedy just are not the same that he brings to  
like you know to the to his movie roles you know 
like like guys kind of talk to me about this  
how it got at the stage the question is everyone 
out there can chris rock act that’s what don was  
getting too and i think i think it’s you know 
i think it’s very situational when it comes  
to chris rock’s acting at this point based 
off of what i’ve seen and what i’ve heard  
i i think there is a talented human being in 
there obviously in the form of a stand-up comedian  
i think his personality is great too but i also 
think his personality is so large that it’s really  
difficult to not see him for the person and i had 
an issue with that in this movie personally i had  
a hard time because what i mean did he have a name 
he probably did but every time they referenced  
him i just heard someone was calling chris rock 
yeah detective okay so like you know it’s like  
that’s a forgettable name and i get it it’s 
like you know it’s it’s he’s supposed to make  
the name something but i don’t think he did and 
i think it’s it’s his acting ability paired with  
his persona and it’s was very difficult to believe 
he was this detective because of that and same  
with i mean you know i think samuel jackson was 
so great in this movie but he wasn’t our lead  
and so i feel like actors it’s very give and take 
performative art style and he was kind of riffing  
with chris rock and it both just felt like i was 
watching because you know samuel jackson was doing  
a lot of commercials lately where he actually 
plays himself and i felt like it was just another  
sort of like you know travolta on the phone as 
santa claus to samuel jackson he’s in the kitchen  
because they’re socially distancing on a 
commercial and sam’s just playing himself and it  
it really didn’t feel like they were playing 
characters it just felt like you put chris rock  
and samuel jackson in the saw universe and they 
were trying to they’re damned this to get out  
because it’s a terrible place to be i mean that’s 
literally how i interpreted it they were trying  
to play their own version of get out from within 
the movie yeah even the movie they were in yeah  
so even when the moments were were great because 
it was those two together and their chemistry was  
awesome it was for the wrong reasons at least 
to me yeah pat what do you think about that man  
well i i kind of like your your comment about sam 
jackson playing himself in commercials like at the  
the very end of this movie could have been um like 
the swat team comes in and sees sam jackson in a  
very compromising position he could have just said 
what’s in your wallet and then cut the credits  
uh that would have been better um but anyway you 
know it’s uh all jokes aside on this one you know  
um i disagree with you i think the acting is fine 
for this type of movie uh i think over the top is  
what you need to go for in this circumstance and i 
think sam jackson went over the top i think chris  
rock went over the top i think everybody went over 
the top and i think they were consistent in that  
uh deciding that this was how intense they were 
going to uh portray these characters now what i  
think is really at the core of the problem is not 
necessarily an acting problem because this is a  
campy movie you know and overacting is is there’s 
a lot of leeway for that i think the issue is  
the story is so incoherent that it goes 
like to flashbacks and then it goes to this  
character and then it goes to that character and 
then all of a sudden like you know instead of a  
flashback it’s like there’s a murder happening 
in the moment you know so stylistically in terms  
of how the story unfolds it’s so scatterbrained 
that you know i think a consistent performance  
is not something that we see we sort of just 
see these nuggets of overacting here and there  
um but the intensity they all bring to the role 
i think is valid i think it it fits this sort of  
campy tone of a movie that’s where i i highly 
disagree because i think this movie was campy  
only because it failed that literally every 
serious aspect it was trying to achieve and  
and i understand it’s from the book of saw 
we’re not directly calling this a spa movie  
uh sorry a saw movie it’s it’s spiral so it’s 
it’s a spin-off but the problem is you know we  
we didn’t establish a new tone and so the easy 
tone to sort of fall into with the horror film  
when the overacting’s there and it’s terrible 
is the camping nature that has lent itself  
so kindly over the years to this genre however i 
don’t think this is one that’s going to be looked  
back on at all positively because i think 
the only reason it falls into that category  
is is just because of how miserably it failed 
and i think if i was like ever to teach someone  
a lesson on film this would be like the movie to 
pull up if i was an acting professor and be like  
all of watch this movie write an essay on on 
what not to do if you were given this role like  
how would you make it better and it the the easy 
answer would be to just literally not take the  
part like this is terri like oh man like look 
the one thing i’ll say as far as overacting is  
like look i’m a fan of overacting in movies like 
someone like al pacino just specifically has given  
two of my favorite overacting performances of 
all time and both he and the devil’s advocate  
like chris i i highly recommend you watch those 
both as far as like fantastic overacting but like  
i did love two particular scenes in this movie one 
the opening scene where chris rock is yelling is  
just having the yelling contest back and forth 
with like the female police sergeant and they’re  
just yelling back and forth like the most the 
most generic like shitty like cop dialogue it’s  
like he’s like you you’re going to solo it’s like 
yeah well that’s because i can’t trust anyone i’m  
like wow like it’s almost like i felt like there 
was a couple scenes where like chris rock was just  
reading the script with like cute cards behind him 
and then there was another scene where like when  
when the same female police are getting captured 
and it’s like put on the table with like the  
hot wax pouring onto her face and chris rock is 
yelling and the one off with like that other like  
one police sergeant who’s like the only other 
police sergeant who’s like not a and they’re  
just having they’re yelling back and forth about 
like oh she’s in a trap oh how do you know like oh  
we haven’t seen her she went down to the basement 
you know and it’s like i’m like guys take a minute  
to breathe first off as far as that goes and i 
just have to say like again i love overacting in  
movies like if anything we haven’t gotten enough 
overacting in movies recently you know so the kind  
of part of the part of the kind of the thing that 
got me through this movie was the fact that like  
every person that came on is like okay at the 
very least you know this person is giving 110  
they know exactly the type of stereotype 
they’re playing and they’re embodying it to the  
nth degree so like i guess as far as where i’m at 
i’m kind of like at this weird like standstill in  
between you guys where it’s like it’s not enough 
to save the movie but it’s also weirdly enough one  
of the things that got me through it if that 
makes any sense yeah yeah i guess if you have  
something that got you through it that makes 
sense okay not give not giving credit at all  
i i’m just going to say i’m i’m totally shocked 
that you were able to care that much about the  
performances and not about the story problems 
because okay hey that’s the thing i focus on  
the areas where i actually cared about because the 
story problems i recognize that like okay this is  
exactly where this is going and then i’m like 
oh this is the type of movie this is my brain  
checked out immediately like my the way that my 
brain works is if i’m watching a shitty movie  
i’m automatically going to gravitate towards the 
things that appeal to me because those are the  
things that i’m going to remember because those 
are the things that i’m going to be like you know  
entertaining like when i’m having conversation 
with my friends afterwards i’m like okay i’m  
obviously going to want to tell them the most 
entertaining part so at the very least if they do  
get stuck watching this movie they’ll hopefully 
be able to like gravitate towards the parts  
that are like semi-good and semi-entertaining as 
opposed to the parts that just don’t work at all  
well i’m still i’m still trying to think uh you 
know another story moment and i’m gonna bring it  
up with you guys and and and hopefully you can 
help me digest this so they’re chasing around  
this serial killer that is going after the other 
cops in the forest and and whatnot and basically  
they get a call oh an officer stabbed and 
they go to a grocery store and an officer  
like a guy with a pig mask ran up and just stabbed 
me and ran away the entire city is now focused on  
this one stabbing every single cop is 
on this one stabbing and that’s when  
the captain angie basically gets kidnapped and 
set up with this whole wax thing and it’s it’s  
you know it’s one of those things 
where chris rock just go he  
he puts it together oh my god it’s like they’re 
going after angie and he just starts screaming  
angie angie and like every shot he’s in angie 
angie and i’d love to see where he was like  
trying to run into the precinct and he did that 
like weird little skip thing i’m like wow he’s  
so bad he can’t even run properly yeah yeah but 
no one said that name so much since mick jagger
but i i’m i’m just still trying to 
understand this plot point of like  
like the whole city’s on alert for this one 
stabbing because it might be the spiral killer  
uh but like i the whole sequence made no 
sense it’s it’s like he’s going off on a  
tangent no one’s listening to him and it’s like 
you had the lead detective go into the station  
and he’s like where’s our captain and people 
are arguing with him it’s like just tell her  
or tell him you know she went to the basement 
and then then it’s like oh man she got isolated  
we got played like no one in this 
world puts two and two together  
and it’s that’s part of the reason why these 
types of moves work is you need the characters  
to be dumber than the audience it’s kind of part 
of like the appeal of horror movies but also like  
why i’m all it’s kind of part of the problem that 
i’ve always had with horror movies per se where  
it’s like okay well to me the minute that the 
audience is smarter than the movie that’s when  
the movie loses you right the fact that you’ve had 
an entire genre that rests almost entirely on the  
fact that the audience is almost always one step 
ahead that creates a whole litany of problems in  
it of itself with the genre then you get this 
movie where it’s like oh we’re gonna try and  
double that to the effect where now we’re almost 
gonna do like this parody-esque approach where  
we’re gonna have this full like really really 
bad full message about like kind of like you know  
like police brutality and like kind of all the you 
know the right ways in order to like approach that  
as far as like the motivations of the mastermind 
and then you this guy is so confident that the  
that the cop i said like the moves that the cops 
are gonna make that he literally just reveals  
himself to chris rock at the end like there’s no 
there isn’t even like a grand reveal like kind  
of like a oh him trying to like be chris rock’s 
friend which is usually the go-to approach like  
in the last scenario before he reveals himself 
as an asteroid no he’s just sitting there  
at a table like oh hey i’m the bad guy and you 
know and it leads to like where we have sam  
jackson like strung up i’m like what is so weak 
you know the only thing i just agree with you  
there i don’t think it was a faux message as much 
as i think it was so mishandled so poorly executed  
that’s right and it just comes off in like it just 
doesn’t do it a service you know because there is  
obviously a chance to really you know drive home 
a very sort of very politically poignant narrative  
here and and there’s an elegant way to do it but 
i just think it really fell short it just like i  
i don’t know where the ball was dropped in this 
movie i feel like everyone kind of shoulders the  
blame equally it’s just it’s it’s so sad because 
i was really looking forward to this one guys and  
you know there’s like so many moments in this film 
that i think honestly like what am i watching here  
like when they’re sitting around even the 
the the uh you know the pre-recorded videos  
of spiral sort of talking to them and dropping 
them those like usb chips he even it felt like  
he was even overacting there like he jumped the 
gun every time he was like getting the words out  
so fast do you want to play a game and there’s 
that one the one moment it’s almost like he had  
the right fast forward when he was playing them 
yeah it’s like annoying it’s like the one moment  
for the third act where like he conveniently 
pauses so they can figure out what’s happening  
around them it was like watching the flash 
when they’re like about to fight a villain  
and like barry walks into the room and he goes 
cisco did you work up the machine and then you  
know the girl who turns all ice he goes well we 
had an issue with that machine and cisco goes  
because the you know flex capacitor didn’t work 
right and then the uh and then you know like uh  
the dude who just quit the show comes in and 
he’s like i’m not from this dimension but even  
i knew that wasn’t gonna happen and it’s like so 
lame i hate those moments and it was so lame dude  
like so i don’t think anything had a chance to 
to thrive in this movie i think the overacting  
was a huge part of why that was killed but actors 
are only responsible for so much like they have  
to work with what they’re given aside from one 
great line which if pat wants to uh dive in and  
talk about how much of an impact that made on 
him uh you know he can aside from a few great  
one-liners from chris rock i mean before pat jumps 
in i just wanted to point out one thing too also  
about the village just as far like first of all 
the fact that this is an owl movie is only an hour  
and a half long and about like 20 minutes of their 
flashbacks and like should just tell you something  
as far as how much material that actually 
had for this movie but also i love this scene  
if i could just point out one scene that kind of 
gave me like a chuckle and i’m not sure whether  
it was in a good or bad way but the scene 
where they’re doing the playback of like show  
all the different ways that like max miguel like 
manipulated everyone the scene where like if chris  
rock is having the phone conversation with him and 
he’d like you you hear the baby in the background  
noise but then it’s like they show it like he was 
planted from his laptop i’m like okay i don’t know  
what kind of like sound projection was like going 
on from here but like i definitely heard that baby  
noise coming off from the side you know there’s no 
way that like the laptop microphone can’t project  
in like all different sorts of directions you 
know actually you can explain that though really  
okay i mean you’re the sound guys you can just 
oh okay i gotta hear your explanation for this  
then so i’m pretty sure that there was a bose 
speaker in samuel jackson’s apartment and so i  
think they probably decked everyone out in this 
movie with home surround sound bose speaker so  
he’s playing it off of his laptop but it’s 
bluetooth connecting it’s one of the only threads  
you can connect in this movie you know that big 
board where chris rod’s trying to staple things  
talking about it’s like the only 
thread you can connect that’s perfect  
problem solved all right at least we can answer 
a few a few of the things about this movie  
the speakers in the laptop could have been the 
spatial kind that basically make it sound like  
that was probably part of that has been doing a 
lot of that lately with like podcasts and stuff  
the character is a really good audio mixer 
let’s just say that but uh he finds the time  
to audio mix and also uh kills he’s a good 
video editor i mean some of his little video  
clips he dropped on the cops out of this he’s 
got like job prospects as far as keeping that  
i i just you know how does his job how does 
he support himself you know like he’s too busy  
he’s a cop first and foremost i mean i don’t 
know what kind of cop salary they are but like  
they made it seem like sam jackson was still 
like paying chris rock’s rent even though like  
chris rock should be able to like afford i don’t 
know again like what chris wreck what like what  
not chris rock what chris was saying before the 
editing the the editing floor the cutting floor  
as far as that goes is probably like filled like 
up to here with like excess footage that they had  
to cut i don’t know the main thing is uh going 
there’s a lot of things i want to address but  
the bad guy again it comes down to the final 
moment where chris rock has one bullet and a  
gun and it’s like oh that killed me when i 
saw you you can you can kill me the bad guy  
or you could shoot that target up there and 
save something save your dad but like ex  
i’m sorry logically let’s say i’m in that 
situation and the bad guy’s in front of me my  
father’s up on this sort of elaborate system and 
there’s about eight pails below him and all his  
blood has been drained out of the system there’s 
probably like 10 minutes left for him to live  
i i i yes i i do care about my family members but 
this evil guy versus i’m not going to be able to  
get this man that’s hanging to the hospital and 
save his life number wait you’re missing the best  
part the best part which is that take out that guy 
as he’s explaining this to him and as sam jackson  
is saying one of the only two lines that i really 
wanted to hear him say which i just wanted to say  
as far as my sam jackson like badass blind quota i 
got them i got the one line where i know they cut  
off the [ __ ] whether you want to play games 
[ __ ] i got that and then i got to shoot this  
[ __ ] which again he was kind of like bleeding 
out so it was kind of like muffled as far as that  
goes but he got that line out at the very least 
i’m like all right i got my sam jackson line quota  
but then the funniest part is as he’s explaining 
as he’s explaining what chris rock has to do  
in order to save his dad he’s literally setting 
up the next trap that’s already gonna happen would  
like the police inevitably cut through the door 
and he could strung up again in a way prolonging  
his life just so that he could get shot like like 
by these police officers coming in at the i’m like  
just the ludicrousness of just the overall setup 
of this i’m like what like i just i think chris  
it’s so funny because we literally just watched 
a movie last night where i had to explain  
how it broke my brain but like that ending 
right there i’m just like aside from the just  
blatant mishandling of it i’m like where is the 
logic here when he literally like well like this  
there’s characters not being able to figure out 
like the obvious way in order to get out of these  
scenarios and then there’s this you know yeah and 
if you want to talk about further lapses of logic  
before we i guess move to our final topic here 
while that scene was taking place where sam  
jackson’s sitting up there his blood’s being 
drained his son is taking a year and a day to  
make this choice first of all his father probably 
lost gotta wait for the villain to get done with  
his evil villain monologue first yeah yeah i 
guess they’re very he’s very polite as a cop  
um and then so he like fights him in like this 
elevator and then he gets out of the elevator and  
they wave at the villain as the swat team busts in 
and he just like floats down and everyone like is  
seeing in full swat gear watching this guy fall 
down and like the slowest old school elevator of  
all time and he’s just like see you guys part 
two and it’s like what the like what the hell  
like that was a terrible location if that’s what 
you wanted his like his like smooth escape nothing  
was smooth about that you’re watching the guy go 
down at the very least at the very least and again  
i’m not trying to make up for this movie’s fault 
at all but at the very kind of understood that  
where again he was trying to frame he was trying 
to use the context obviously built up behind the  
purported corruption in this department in 
order to frame sam jackson and chris rock as  
like both one halves of like the spiral duo kind 
of clearing him of suspicion so at the very least  
that made sense but then once the elevator 
doors come down and chris rock is like  
screaming at him when they’re trying to do the 
obvious homage to the first one i’m just like  
what like you’re you’re just gonna let this guy 
go like all of your attention is focused here  
like just again the latency i’m like what is 
happening well this goes back to the sort of  
the message of the film right because you 
know sam jackson is stringed like a puppet  
and basically the bad guy has set the final trap 
of sam jackson now his arms are being raised and  
suddenly a gun pops up and the swat team comes 
in and it’s the idea that uh this you know police  
officers see a black man with a gun and so they 
just open fire and they’re gonna ask questions  
later and that’s sort of the final moment of the 
film that we’re left on but in the context of saw  
a swat team going into this situation that sees 
a man strapped to this weird puppeteer thing  
like is that their first reaction is just they 
see a gun-like object or they see a man that’s  
being tortured to death like i to me it’s 
it’s it undercuts the message that you know  
they’re trying to have in this film and it’s i 
i understand the message you know i i you know  
can see the whole idea of police brutality and 
you know someone that’s doing vigilante justice  
and using the whole saw backstory to sort of 
punish these corrupt cops um you know and how  
maybe if if someone is a vigilante this will sort 
of change the system you know and and maybe that’s  
a corrupt thought from the bad guy like there’s 
there is this message in in subtext in this film  
but you know i don’t think it really is clear 
what they’re trying to communicate whereas black  
christmas unfortunately i have to say it’s very 
full circle it’s very clear on the message they’re  
trying to say which is they took a very specific 
um you know misogynistic horror movie in the past  
you know it’s just basically young women you know 
prancing around in their underwear type of movie  
and they flipped black christmas when they remade 
it to be sort of a little bit of a empowerment  
movie where the women sort of you know uh take 
control and they take down the the male bad guys  
and they you know i guess the one the one 
the one woman arrives we’ll bring it back  
the one yeah but like the main thing is that 
message actually came across and made sense  
i remember saying like you know it’s a kind of 
trashy horror movie but it actually had a good  
message and it was clear whereas this you know 
spiral is just a trashy movie and this the message  
is muddled and you know i i could see the message 
i can understand the message i could see what they  
were going for uh i just don’t think it was um you 
know as clear as it it could have been or at least  
as um it didn’t pay off as expected yep i couldn’t 
agree more with that so with that being said guys  
what did you think about our conversation 
about the overacting chris rock’s performance  
the message sort of being muddled by the many 
flaws of this film let us know your thoughts in  
the comments below be sure to subscribe to our 
channel hit the like button on this video turn  
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podcast so our last topic let’s get into it guys 
um i want to know how does this impact future  
horror reboots and and i’ll even add a second 
point to that do you think that the performance of  
this movie since they clearly left it open-ended 
do you think it’s gonna impact you know if if we  
see the follow-up to this because i don’t see it 
being received well i’m i’m already hoping this  
movie flops at like whatever sort of like 
is the equivalent of the box office today  
as far as you know both in theaters and then 
obviously once it obviously hits streaming uh  
i i could maybe see this like being like a weird 
like kind of streaming like cult hit when it  
hit streaming but like i don’t see this being a 
tremendous success i mean again they did a really  
really good job with the marketing and like horror 
movies are like the last kind of vestiges of like  
old school cinema that could survive outside of 
like superhero and other spectacle-filled movies  
but ugh just no i just just the thought of seeing 
more of the movie from this franchise but like  
again the soft franchise was not exactly like the 
most highest sought after franchise but like they  
were like there were they’d always had it’s like 
cultish fans like that and it had people come  
out and i’m like i just don’t see this like 
kind of having that kind of like raw appeal  
with this many soft fans you know i think it’s 
if anything it’s gonna be more so a matter of  
just people are finally happy to go out and see 
a movie in theaters again but as far as like the  
kind of the overall quality of this impacting like 
whether or not it’s gonna get sequels just please  
god i hope this is i never ever root for a movie 
to fail but this is one instance where i’m like  
yeah if they were ever to like kind of just let 
this one kind of die you know die a quick death  
then i i’d be more than happy for it you know if 
anything it kind of makes me more scared because  
like this is not going to be the last one 
of these like kind of weird like kind of  
pseudo follow-up reboots to like previous horror 
franchises that we’ve gotten you know kind of  
the franchise resets we’re obviously getting 
the next halloween movie later this year we’re  
getting the new candy man later this year so i 
mean definitely for me if this is kind of the  
startup of that it does not bode well for the rest 
of these movies that’s all i can say yeah i think  
it’s one of those situations where you know you 
said that you use the word raw when describing  
the first movie and i think that obviously it’s a 
very raw film and i think that’s why it’s it’s not  
it’s you know it’s the first saw is not appealing 
to mass audiences you know it’s it’s one of those  
films that we only have because of the descent 
desensitization of our society based on just  
over the years how we’ve slowly and surely keep 
upping the ante of how you know grotesque and  
and disturbing we make these horror films and so 
i think even with that being said saw for the time  
was very um groundbreaking and so because of that 
i think it was always going to have sort of like  
a culti fan base but but it was it was still a 
well done movie and it still captured something  
that an audience was looking for clearly 
we’ve had eight other saw installments made  
i think that this one it’s only life it’s only 
lifeblood here is clinging to the name of uh  
of a franchise which while i think its rawness is 
its strongest point and also its greatest weakness  
because it being so raw and so real and gritty the 
in the past this is why i would love to get your  
thoughts on the first saw movie should you ever 
watch it because i think while the word raw bodes  
really strongly and negatively for it at least it 
it allows people to gravitate towards it at least  
it gives them it gives an audience a chance to 
find this movie because it was executed so well  
whereas this one again like i said it really 
feels like someone was uh not like a fan film but  
playing playing dress up and and just like 
trying out if they want to like you know  
make a horror film and what would it be like and 
if we had to like sort of just do this on the fly  
you know like let’s pretend and it just it didn’t 
feel real is what i’m trying to say it didn’t feel  
like a saw film it didn’t feel really like 
anything of value and so that’s that’s why i  
think you know boating well for the future of the 
saw franchise i hope that this movie is kind of  
adopted as a distant cousin if anything because 
they didn’t thank god to use the actual saw  
title in this um and uh for saw fans sake right 
and i think in regards to like future reboots  
i’m not worried i think each individual franchise 
deserves its own sort of like fresh-minded  
approach because i’m not gonna go into the new 
candyman reboot thinking like oh well the new saw  
reboot was terrible unless a lot of the same names 
were attached now that’s a different conversation  
i don’t know that offhand but i i think you know 
horror fans are you know they’re going to get  
their reboots man i mean they kind of get every 
fourth movie in a reboot anyways and then rob  
zombie comes along right if you’re talking 
about this movie i have sitting right here  
and we reboot it in a different way it’s like 
horror fans are no stranger to the reboot i think  
it’s just they don’t necessarily always 
call it a reboot and uh they they  
you know they pretend there was a book the 
killer originally had and so they they go  
off that you know but pat what’s your take on 
everything dom and i are saying that’s fantastic  
christian the fact that you bring up rob zombie 
is is the reason why i think they’ll uh you know  
uh chris rock sequel in the saw universe will 
happen because they did something different with  
the series and hey let’s give them another shot 
you know obviously the numbers have to pan out for  
them to do that but i think you know they’ll be 
good enough and basically they’ll get another shot  
and i think they’ll hopefully you know take it 
in a slightly different direction uh and you  
know maybe bring back some of the elements they 
had that were successful here and then try some  
new stuff uh that will hopefully make the next one 
better now for the most part i i don’t watch these  
types of movies like i think back like hostile was 
one of the first ones that sort of did this like  
sadistic sort of murdering torture type stuff and 
i just got turned off to the whole like direction  
that horror movies were taking where it’s just you 
know hey we’re just going to try to gross you out  
with sick you know uh props and and uh disgusting 
scenes uh it’s it’s just not for me uh when you  
said spiral i literally thought this was gonna 
be a live action uh movie about a purple dragon  
and i when i found out sam jackson and chris rock 
were in that i was like oh my god this is gonna be  
the best video game movie ever uh and then i found 
out it was a saw movie um but yeah which by the  
way they remade two years ago and i heard it was 
pretty good but uh so um you know again you know  
it’s it’s i i didn’t watch any of the 
other solo movies because it’s not my genre  
uh to watch sadistic you know basically torture uh 
you know style movies i just don’t think there’s  
any real value to them so you know i’m not the 
target audience in this regard and you know going  
into this movie it’s it just really it never did 
anything for me because there was no story um and  
so in terms of a reboot like i don’t i there’s 
nothing i can say about it you know it’s it’s  
i i’ll have to watch the first one if i ever care 
to and i doubt i will but oh don’t let that don’t  
let this one taint that yeah don’t let it 
take this one it’s legitimately great i i  
even i came around on it but i have no interest 
in watching people saw their limbs off you know  
it’s like there’s just no you’re letting this one 
get in the way of that the first one is so much  
it’s not even just that it’s the fact of kind of 
what the franchise came to because the franchise  
ended up doing what every horror movie horror 
franchise does is it obviously gets away from  
what made the first one great and just becomes 
about like the you know the the shtick which in  
this case is the traps but the first movie is like 
not it like actually is like a legitimately like  
engaging mystery as far as how it’s engaging it’s 
really impressive what james juan and lei wennell  
pulled off with the relatively like small micro 
budget of what that first movie went for yeah and  
now the first one is a master class of like what 
to do right in in these how to make something so  
disgustingly and offensively grotesque still 
have an artistic value an artistic side  
to it so i i wouldn’t let this one’s lack of 
anything that gives it a leg to stand on be uh  
an indicator of it because i do think you actually 
might enjoy it a little bit um because it is it  
is interesting also to see them work within those 
budgetary restraints but it seems like we’re kind  
of uh done with the whole reboot topic so i mean 
you know what what do you guys think do you guys  
think that this you know deserves a second shot 
how do you think this is going to bode for like  
dom said candyman and some of the other horror 
reboots we have coming down the pipeline this year  
let us know your thoughts in the comments below 
of course be sure to subscribe leave a comment  
uh you know give this video a thumbs up hit that 
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already said because i want to say thank you for 
subscribing that’s what i was trying to get out  
but it’s late and i’m getting tired thank you guys 
for watching our content we really appreciate it  
um so star ratings fellas yeah let’s get this 
over with um i’ll go first this movie sucked  
um i don’t want to talk about it anymore that i 
already have pat summed it up perfectly before i  
love chris rock but man was he the wrong choice 
just for everything involved with this movie  
this movie had every chance for me to actually be 
engaging and compelling and it went for the shlock  
shticky root and the problem is it couldn’t even 
make its mystery compelling enough in order to get  
me through all the way to the end and had to rely 
on some really bad tropes and cliches uh i hate  
this movie so much it’s my least favorite movie 
of the year the fact that i’ve seen this many  
bad movies already at the 20 this far into 2021 is 
not a good sign this movie earns the lowest rating  
i’ve given a movie so far this officially wins 
the capone award from last year as to what the  
[ __ ] happened here one and a half out of five 
stars from me for spiral from the book of saw also  
where’s the [ __ ] book well i i know you were 
trying to make that joke before chris but like  
seriously there’s no book here like what does that 
even mean maybe it was an e-book i don’t maybe  
i don’t know i don’t know either way we 
missed out on that one hold on i think it  
you know the killer probably studied 
the case files on the original saw  
and that’s that’s the only reading material i can 
think of probably it’s the only one that it’s the  
only one that makes sense so i think i think 
it has it it must be sort of like i guess you  
mentioned disciples in some of the other movies so 
he’s the new disciple he’s taking from that book  
maybe it’s a religious connection of some 
weird kind maybe i i have no idea yeah  
and i don’t care to find out something else 
this movie is the worst movie i’ve seen  
this year i thought saint maude was already 
the biggest heartbreak being such a terrible  
film from a24 but apparently you know never say 
never is what i learned from this movie and uh  
i never thought i would give this low of a score 
this is crazy but i’m gonna say this movie is a  
0.5 it was that terrible i hated my time with 
this movie so uh with that being said pat it  
was fun hanging out with you guys of course 
but i hated my time every one of these movies  
are always so much fun but uh pat man where are 
you leaving us here what defcon level i suppose
we’re not going there come on uh because 
legit you don’t want nuclear warfare on  
your hands i get it ever there was a time 
to bring back the defcon rating legitimately  
if you want to watch you know 
sam jackson and chris rock  
do something interesting sure you know watch 
this movie give it a try i guess uh but if  
if you want to watch a movie that’s zero out of 
five stars watch this movie wow wow zero one star
it’s not one of those like it’s not my genre 
first of all and it never will be and i just  
the the story is so convoluted and the message 
is just slightly off point for sure only slightly  
yeah it’s like i understand what they’re going 
for and it’s sort of a modern you know thing to  
message to get out there but you know it’s it’s 
just like what what are you actually saying you  
know it i don’t know so and that’s that’s the 
biggest part of my frustration i think is the way  
that they step on their own toes in in a situation 
where they could have made such a i thought great  
statement but whatever that’s how we think about 
it that’s how we feel about this movie and yeah  
so watch it you know to think about it but uh i 
just don’t expect that just given the amount of  
thought you can actually get out of this movie i 
don’t think that even we can even say that with  
a straight face overall because yeah well anyways 
this was still a fun time so i’m glad we did this  
i had a flat this is the most fun that i’ve had 
recording a podcast like in a while because we  
haven’t had one of these chances like actually 
go out see a bad movie in theaters and roast it  
for a little bit i’m i’m yeah it’s a nice 
return to form i will say i’ll probably  
uh look out for some reviews and read it and 
try to get some differing opinions because  
like you know it’s one of those things where you 
go in it’s i wasn’t really that entertained but  
uh maybe someone can make a valid point and i can 
see their argument and you know i’ll spend some  
time tracking that down but i’m not gonna make a 
career out of it so to speak you know it’s like  
re read you know a couple couple articles and 
and just see what other people are are gleaning  
from this but uh this is that this is one of 
those movies where it’s like a man i cannot  
wait and this doesn’t happen that often 
specifically with the movies that i gravitate  
towards but this is one of those movies that 
i think chris you could relate to this where  
it’s like oh man i can’t wait to talk to 
my co-workers about how bad this movie was  
to answer the question that you brought 
up of how this will impact other things  
like uh like candyman stuff like that it’s like i 
don’t think this this is like a drop in the bucket  
like people will watch it uh some people like it 
sometimes this is a drop in the bucket all right  
like me we’ll forget about it uh and then we’ll 
move on to the next thing so i’m curious i hope  
people put stuff in the comments uh so that we 
can listen to uh you know what other people think  
for sure yeah this was dropping the bucket on the 
modern digital editing bay and completely ruining  
the majority of the hard drives and just being 
left with like what we got i mean honestly that  
that’s the only thing i i i saw from this oh man 
that’s funny that’s funny so people that was it  
those were our thoughts on spiral from the book 
of saw as you can clearly see skip this movie  
like it’s the [ __ ] plague uh just just based on 
everything that we’ve said about it let us know  
your thoughts either way in the comments below 
what you thought of this episode be sure to also  
click watch all the rest of the clips that we’ve 
put up on youtube be sure to follow professor pat  
at everything that he’s doing pat where can the 
good people find you online yeah i’m still just uh  
threatening to post something on instagram so at 
patrick w huber and yeah hey i’ll post something  
at some point and hopefully you’re holding your 
followers hostage there yeah right yeah you know  
it’s it’s a strategy right you know if i get 
enough subscribers i’ll post something for sure  
meredith fair enough dude i hope you do 
man for all of our sake yeah i’m doing  
the opposite strategy most people do 
so uh chris where can people find you  
yeah yeah you guys can find me not watching 
this movie ever again at christian ivanko on  
all the social medias ivanko spelled e-v-a-n-k-o 
i make music that is much better than this movie  
and you can find that through the link 
in my bio i have a second podcast that’s  
so much better than this movie and you can 
find that through the link in my bio as well  
um in all seriousness guys check it out see it 
what else is really in theaters but you know yeah  
can i reiterate one last point is like they did 
put some hard work into this like it definitely  
oh wait pat you never got to talk about the line 
no no don’t worry about it but uh the the film  
you know the the craft behind the film is 
probably spectacular um so you know listen  
it’s not the best movie it didn’t have the best 
impact uh but people worked hard on it and i’ll  
i’ll say i appreciate yeah i mean i do too i 
just you know i say that the only reason why i  
i don’t necessarily is i’m like look it’s 
it’s this is what these people get paid to do  
you know so i’m not going to give i’m not going 
to give credit where it’s like oh at least they  
got paid to work on it great they got paid to work 
on a piece of [ __ ] well so not to dedicate their  
efforts at all but like if i say that about 
everything it’s like but tom where can they  
continue uh talking to you about this uh you know 
they can reach out directly to me through facebook  
and instagram at movie note reviews where i just 
made a sarcastic post about how i still don’t  
believe that james cameron is going to release 
four avatar sequels in the next eight years or so  
but they can follow my facebook and instagram for 
all of that information they can follow us right  
here on the talking tv channel on facebook and 
instagram at talking tv podcast in order to keep  
up with everything we have going on and people 
from all of us spiraling slowly out of control  
as we surely have 12 seasons into short film 
and watch more [ __ ] movies we’ll see you guys
you