Spiral: From the Book of Saw | Review & Recap

people we’re slowly spiraling out of control 
see what i did there as we review our first  
our second i should say big movie that we’ve seen 
in theaters this year after nobody man i wish we  
had nicer things to say i’m just gonna let that 
sit where it is we’re reviewing spiral from the  
book of saw the latest movie from saw director 
darren lin bausman starring chris rock and  
samuel l jackson oh man chris were you expecting 
this to be your next big theater going event i  
most certainly was not i think this movie is 
going to stick with me for quite some time and  
i’ll leave it there and not at all for the reason 
that you guys will think all that more stay tuned
all right what’s up people we’re back it’s another 
episode of the talking tv podcast chris of course  
my loyal co-host is here professor pat is here 
guys i i i think that this is starting to be like  
a moment because we haven’t had a movie like this 
in almost two years now i feel like the last time  
we had like an event like this was 2019’s black 
christmas which you guys famously had to drag  
me to in order to get me to actually watch that 
movie i mean before we get into anything related  
to like what this movie is supposedly related to 
like first off how are you guys doing second of  
all like how

are you feeling psychologically and
emotionally after seeing this movie yeah i mean
i think i’m shocked that black christmas was
a better film than this one i’m just going to
come right out and say that i mean that is a bold
statement but yeah this is sort of i guess i don’t
know it’s like maybe a mini tradition for our
little group friend group here where we uh when
there’s a terrible horror movie in town we call
a pat we say hey pat we got it we got a double
whammy for you let’s go not only see it together
but then podcast about it yes absolutely i mean
again we sort of had this last year with fantasy
island but that was just me and chris pat we we
were unfortunately not graced with your presence
at that time but like how you feeling buddy i mean
i feel like this movie took a lot out of all of
us but you most of all um i’m just gonna say black
christmas definitely seems like a classic work
of literature oh my god like top top 10 book list
material compared to this film and it’s funny
because apparently saw is based on a book
yeah i i don’t want to put i don’t want to put
like the the craft uh behind this film down i’ll
i’ll say right up front that i will the no no no
it was a good looking film it was decently edited
i thought a lot of the montage sequences mostly
of uh you know those uh those deaths that we come
to expect from a saw movie uh this is the first
one i’ve ever seen so i guess the the ones you
expect from these movies uh i thought they were
pretty well put together so the craft of the movie
is one thing and i’m i’m definitely not going to
be talking about that for most of this episode
i i will we’ll say it’s good but the story is
that’s that’s where my uh bad point’s gonna be
i feel like certain moments of this movie were
like just like certain of the police officers
were just gonna like erupt and transform into like
other like police officer caricature stereotypes
that i’ve seen from previous installments like
when chris rock was yelled at the captain i
was expecting her to transform into like the
captain from beverly hills conference always
yelling at eddie murphy that like ahmed was
doing the impression of in beverly hills cop
that’s what i was expecting after watching after
watching certain of the scenes in this movie and
i’ll just let that kind of sit where it is
people so i guess without further ado let’s
try and sort of sum up this movie as if our
thoughts haven’t already been made clear enough
i mean it’s really weird kind of that the next
installment from the soft franchise is a franchise
that is one of many many horror franchises that
has already had way too many sequels would come
from the brain of chris rock of all people but
hey i guess he really wanted to do a saw movie
and i mean the majority of the movie is
a pretty typical police procedural as far
as everything goes you know it’s like oh
we got to investigate this serial killing
you know starts off with the killing then chris
rock and his partner have to go in and investigate
it you know and then they’re like oh man this
could be the jigsaw killer back from the dead
except there’s a bunch of spirals just drawn
everywhere and i feel like that’s like just all
that i could give away about this movie plot wise
without actually giving too much away but i mean
look i guess to put this in comparison i saw
another movie wrath of man earlier this week
and while that movie i think started off a
little rough at the very least it got good
by the end this movie started off questionable at
best and by the end i was just like i i was doing
that thing where i i normally shouldn’t
do but where i’m just giving commentary
throughout the movie and i’m like oh [ __
] the minute i start to give commentary
the movies lost me just among many other things i
mean chris just for starters how annoyed were you
by me talking like near the end or was it like a
saving grace from the actual quality of the movie
uh for once i wasn’t annoyed um so we’ll
leave it at that but let me just say this
i think it’s time to jump into our spoiler free
review boys and really start chipping away at this
uh this this gift i don’t know sorry good enough
with the transition there but this is spoiler free
yeah no you just got to say the
words like you mean them you know
like uh like i’m sure they were written in the
book that is based on this movie apparently
so i don’t know i mean spoiler free review man
i don’t want to take pat’s two word review so
before i go any further pat you you kind of had a
really i’d say profound way of describing this one
i don’t think it’s that profound it’s uh you know
for me uh overall i i basically summoned down the
two words and that’s it sucked like i i don’t
know like i kind of wanted to like it you know
i i definitely got into some of the you know
dom’s gonna hate me for this but i i thought
the acting was perfect for this type of movie
it’s because it’s it’s you know it’s a campy
horror movie where like if you see it in a theater
with a crowd like the movie us you’re basically
going to be talking through it you’re going to
be laughing you’re going to have this experience
with the crowd you know maybe we didn’t really see
it with that big of a crowd uh you know it’s like
we’re still socially distancing there’s not that
many people in the theater um you know really only
those that have been vaccinated and really willing
to go out there and uh you know basically uh
attempt theaters again are there and
so you’re not getting that energy from
you know people because they’re just quite
frankly not there so this might have been
something that was a little more uh palatable
with other people in the audience yeah yeah i
think you know it’s it’s certainly great to have
theaters back and i forgot how much i missed it
and i think this movie would have been even
worse had i watched it at home on hbo max or
something that’s for sure i just you know i’m
just trying to figure out like what they were
trying to say with this one because i mean while
saw i’ve only seen the first one the original one
i enjoy it a lot i’ve seen it twice now and it’s
a really good watch both times i mean it is kind
of like a game changing horror film and obviously
a lot of horror franchises they’re easy to make
and you know it’s like the whole shock value of it
so you can keep them coming and they deteriorate
over time but the one thing i’ve heard about saw
is like there’s somewhat of a bar of quality above
some of the rest of the franchises that kind of
you know go on and on and on and on forever like
maybe your screams of the world and so it’s just
strange because i was really excited about the
trailers like they sold this movie really well i
thought it looked compelling they showed like the
four good scenes where chris rock actually was an
actor and they got you to want to go and see this
movie if you you saw the trailers if you watch
the advertisement but clearly that’s just another
portrayal of how strong marketing can be because
i feel completely let down i i think the trailer
editors saw rock’s performance in this movie and
we’re like oh man we’ve how much footage do we
actually have here oh we got this much all right
use it if we’re if we’re going to get beat butts
and seats we’re going to make this look like yes
chris rock is literally about to go head-to-head
with the jigsaw look the one thing i can say
about the rest of the soft franchise is that i
as as kind of weird and kind of as grotesque
as the movies get as time goes on at the
very least it never stops being this interesting
commentary on the on the pharmaceutical industry
which again like i have to give it commending
for that because at the very least it is still
trying to say something and this movie certainly
takes the messaging from the previous saw movies
but it completely misses the tact if you
could even call it that you know i guess
in order to kind of qualify this movie for
like some of its positives i think that it
does a good job as far as capturing kind of like
the police procedural slash mystery element that
kind of made the first one as engaging as it is
right that’s kind of the majesty of the first one
is addition to its low budget it’s not a horror
movie primarily it’s kind of this mystery thriller
kind of following in the league of like some of
the other like late 90s movies and i think it
captured that really well this movie it feels like
is trying to do that but like with a more schlocky
obvious way you know and like the problem is i
i can’t necessarily say that it it is beneficial
towards the material because the kills and just
kind of the overall quality and genre of the
movie it like is quick cutting and like doing fast
edits in the middle of these kills and it’s kind
of like trying to be like oh it’s this like kind
of fun goofy like mystery thriller on one minute
but then the next minute it’s like oh no like feel
bad for these cops it’s like kind of one another
one of those movies that kind of doesn’t know
where to pick its lane tonally if that makes any
sense and i also think that again just before we
even break down some of the problems even further
just how kind of intentionally hilarious
that makes it and not in the best way at all
well tom let me jump off on your comment there
like for the most part um i i feel like it’s
it’s i didn’t see any of the other song movies so
you’ll have to let me know if the other i’ve only
seen the first two so yeah so just from knowledge
of what i’ve heard from other people yeah just let
me know if if those movies are slightly different
from what i’m about to describe because i got you
for the most part in a horror movie you would have
a character wander into said warehouse or whatever
and you know then the killer would kind of
scare them and capture them and do the torment
to them but the way they do it in this
particular film is sort of like ocean’s 11 style
like our sherlock holmes where like chris
basically you know gets a little gift and
it’s you know a body part and um you know
then he basically depending on the body yeah
well whatever the the case is but he
sort of you know imagines what happened
and then we get to see sort of the torture and and
the whole do you want to play a game and it’s uh
you know it’s it’s one of those things
where you you’re getting a flashback
of this thing off camera that already happened
and it sort of is diffused like there’s no
you just know you’re gonna see some gory stuff
because that’s what these movies are about
and it takes away sort of these scary like you
know are they gonna get out of this well the
answer is no because we already saw the gift
wrapped body parts so um you know it’s it’s
stylistically is using that sort of police uh
procedural and it’s doing this ocean’s eleven
like you know flashback flash forward all that
type of weird stuff yeah a lot a lot of weirdos
deflates the scariness of this film yeah and i
wanna i wanna go off there at the risk of sounding
like a psychopath hear me out first guys i think
because of the way that they shot this and because
of the way that the majority of like uh you know
i don’t know what to call them spirals kills
were sort of diffused prior to you know you know
they defused them before we saw them i i thought
that there was no tension there to begin with but
they could have at least given the fans what they
want what we got in the at least the first movie
i can speak to that which was seeing it play out i
mean we had two of i think there was four or five
major kills that we just kind of cut before we saw
the conclusion and then it was resolved off screen
was it because it was too grotesque was it because
you know there’s like but but reasons i guess
maybe but i mean it it didn’t you know because saw
is was the first one was so disturbing the first
time i watched it just because of the realism
of thinking there could be someone this malicious
out there who would do this to other people
and we had some of that in this movie like there’s
a great sequence at the end involving glass and
that’s all i’ll say because we’re in the spoilers
the spoiler free section and we got close to the
level of the first one but then there’s one
where there’s a body of water and electricity
and instead of seeing that play out we cut to the
conclusion and it’s already a very short movie
so i i just that to me it’s like if you’re already
gonna have a diffused situation like that one
why are you not at least going to give the horror
fans what they want you know i i’m left wanting a
lot from this but especially in that sort of gory
shock value department there’s there’s a lot that
i think they fell short on it’s like they had like
a person on set for like the days where they were
shooting the trap scenes and they were like okay
we can only get like this much footage up to it
we can almost like you know get it up to like this
about before it becomes super intuitive you know
but then what and also i just wanted to point out
too that like the director definitely knew what he
was doing when he put samuel jackson in a movie
and then he makes glass the subject of like one
of the last couple of kills like right before we
get to the sam right before like in the same movie
sam jackson come on i’m not crazy there like
like they definitely knew what they were doing
as far as that goes yeah they were calling back
to one of samuel jackson’s greatest performance
well you know i basically i was i was going to ask
you guys this later but you know what’s a better
movie this our glass oh glass no question
this makes this makes class like an academy
award nominee dude and the funniest thing is that
this is i’ll definitely give this more props for
entertainment like it’s definitely more engaging
it gets me like through the scenes quicker and
like has more engaged than glass but like glass at
the very least is attempting to do something this
i have no idea what that what this is attempting
to do and that kind of brings me back to my last
point that i want to do before we dive heavily
into spoilers which is that like look as dumb as
the traps are as far as that goes we know they’ve
kind of become the centerpiece of this movie like
they’re just the fodder right in order to get us
like the final mastermind right the final boss
obviously the chris rock is ultimately going to
have to overcome right that’s part of the gimmick
of these movies right it’s a series of traps and
then there’s always the twist at the end and i
guess it just would have been better if the trip
if if the twist at the end didn’t like make like
the most like megalomaniacal like james bond-esque
mustache twirling like austin powers villain like
literally some of the traps were like this is too
ridiculous even jigsaw would have looked at this
had been like this is excessive you know like
like [ __ ] like glass like again i can’t spoil
anything because because again that’s the one
thing i will give credit to like new filmmakers
that they at the very least know how to make like
violence and death like and like still be creative
with the way that they do it i don’t know what
that says about people in hollywood but like i can
only do gold based off of what i see yeah i i know
exactly what you mean it’s i mean you have to make
up for how flat the the villain of this film is i
mean he really was acting school one-on-one like
dude that guy needs to take some classes the third
member of the army hammer trio from social network
he was just god awful man and it was just it was
atrocious but anyways guys i think it’s safe to
say that was our spoiler-free section let us
know what you thought if you have any thoughts
if you think we left something out if you agree
if you disagree you guys know where to do that
write down in the comments below of course
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like our next piece on saw so dom what are we
talking about next man uh how does this relate
to the rest of the saw franchise and like that’s
the name of the topic but it’s also honestly a
legitimate question that i have like it kind
of works as far as a double entendre with like
double meaning i don’t know if i even got my word
phrasing right but like i legitimately have no
idea what this has to do with like the rest of the
song franchise like i get it the soft franchise
has like kind of rebooted itself a lot of weird
ways and it kind of works as far as the whole
anthological aspect where it’s a different set
of characters for each movie so it kind of makes
it easy if like jigsaw is the only thing tying
together but also obviously well-known people
well people who are well-versed in the franchise
should say no the jigsaw the actual character of
john kramer dies in three i think he comes back
as like a ghoster like he’s being kept alive
like some of his disciples or whatever but like oh
seriously i’m no joke like the movie the way that
this movie plays out it’s like jigsaw is literally
only the inspiration and like that’s it like if
it had been a situation like physically there’s
like kind of no way that this ties to saw and like
you would think that would be a strength going
towards this movie but again i don’t know how
but like somehow the movie manages to make it like
to its fault like i don’t know am i crazy here as
far as like i’m legitimately confused as to how
this connects to the rest of the song franchise
um i’m just going to to bring back some uh classic
like 80s horror movies like uh let’s see friday
the 13th part five uh the final chapter or the
new chapter the final chapter that’s right yeah
i think it’s is it the final chapter i believe
five is the final chapter yeah i i i forget the
names but basically no no no no f four is the
final chapter five is a new beginning i just
remember it yeah exactly that’s it four i remember
cause four is the only friday the thirteenth movie
i’ve actually watched it’s been a while since i’ve
dipped into the friday the 13th marathons when
friday the 13th comes around how many people do
that without their brains melting out their ears
it’s just the same thing over and over again i
don’t know they’re fantastically bad but uh the
main thing is the the new chapter is jason’s kind
of like going around he’s doing his killing and
that it turns out that it’s uh just a copycat
it’s someone that has uh you know angry issues
going on and he decided to to use jason’s
mask as a a way of of murdering people and
it was quite possibly one of the worst movies in
the franchise i think you know this is probably
saul’s worst movie in the franchise like we
have to face it it has nothing to do with the
previous killer it’s kind of doing its own thing i
almost feel like get rid of the saw moments right
this is a saw movie no just it could have been any
serial killer that you’re tracking down i’ve seen
plenty of movies uh without pacino has done one of
these like recently like uh i think bruce willis
was in a movie recently that is sort of like
very similar to this it’s very formulaic it’s
you know it’s well done i’m not i i
personally think it was well done for
you know i watch these you know give me those
five out of ten star uh crappy action films
uh about a police detective searching for the uh
serial killer i watch those this is perfectly that
where it goes wrong is everything that has to do
with saw because first of all um you know i just
don’t want to watch uh sadistic killing scenes
you know it’s just not interested in it and like
we said earlier basically you’re deflating uh
the [ __ ] you know it’s like i’m not scared
because i already know this person dies so what
am i watching i’m just watching skin be peeled
off i’m watching you know um fingers be pulled off
i’m watching you know uh glass go into people it’s
like why would i want to watch this you know
it just doesn’t make any sense to me yeah it it
it kind of felt like an excuse to sort of go back
to the days of the early internet you know and i’m
really glad i was young when that was going on
because that was uh you know thank god this was
just hollywood because i did have some of those
moments that made me think okay thank god this is
just a movie but then it stops or then the writing
comes in or the acting comes in and yeah something
comes in to just dilute or defuse the situation
and so there were those moments where i was in
my seat and i was like oh god they’re like about
to peel this guy’s fingers off cut okay now chris
rock’s in his dad’s apartment where’s his dad it’s
like no that’s no okay that’s not how you do this
i just don’t get the direction chris i just
realized what what my confusion is with this movie
and you know why because it’s the same confusion
that we had when we saw joker famously our fifth
ever episode for this podcast because this movie
kind of did the exact same thing that joker did
where it’s just somebody else trying to get their
indie idea made and they attached it to a big
franchise a big ip recognizable ip that really
has nothing to do with zip because at the end of
the day joker had nothing to do with the batman or
dc ip and this has nothing to do with the saw ip
it’s literally just using the ip in order to get
it’s kind of like shitty schlocky like indie movie
that never would have been made across and in
some senses i give those guys credit because
they’re kind of geniuses as far as working the
system the problem is is that it’s us the people
who have to suffer by watching their shitty
product under the guise of another installment
because i think he’s totally right
how did i how did i just realize that
i don’t know i think i’m
totally right let me tell him
just because i want to further bolster that
argument and then give you a giant mountain
to climb over here years old for two years now
two years i’ve been trying to figure out this
[ __ ] movie and now this movie of all movies
is finally the one that makes me realize i’m
like oh that’s the problem here so i mean i i do
think i was kind of thinking to myself i was like
this is this is the town talking you know
it’s like hey chris rock i know someone um
i am finally at the point where i’m going to make
what i want to make and so i’m going to do it and
you know i probably know the director i probably
know this guy we can probably get this done i got
samuel jackson on speed dial you know it’s it
seems like that was the uh the impetus behind
this sort of like i’m just going to make a movie
because i want to make a movie and i respect that
i think it’s certainly so like it’s tough because
i don’t want to be too mean on this one because
i do think it was made for the right reasons
like i do feel there’s a genuine nature behind
it i just think the execution is terrible and the
last thing i’ll say before we turn it over to pat
it’s like i i think you know the only reason i’ll
disagree with you dom is joker at least felt like
a movie you know what this is this you’re right i
i never felt like this movie started seriously i
never felt like this movie started the tone was
never established for me that’s never happened
on any other film we’ve covered on this podcast
even in fantasy island the tone was established
whatever that was whatever the hell that toad was
yeah no that’s that’s the pattern i’m sorry i just
know so wanted to get that out i just wanted to
address the joker thing i think the movie was
pretty good the joker and my biggest issue with it
is that i understood the ending but i don’t think
they actually did anything to earn that ending and
so therefore that i agree with you on so therefore
the the movie is sort of fatally flawed because
it didn’t move me to the place it needed to
to fully accept the actual final moment of that
film and so therefore i felt like i invested you
know whatever it was two hours of time into a
pretty well done movie and it just fell flat
you know it didn’t quite do it for me um and
that’s where i feel the problem with the joker is
otherwise it was actually pretty decent
i thought it was an enjoyable movie to go
see with this movie i you know it’s i agree
with christian like it really never felt like it
was a story being told that i cared about
uh i really thought about the issues
of the story throughout the whole entire thing
one you know sam jackson is is chris rock’s father
and they’re going to have no no that’s not
what i’m having trouble with i was like
hear me out before you jump to conclusions
hear me out so the two of them right you
know sam jackson’s the ex-police chief he you know
resigned or whatever the case may be kind of never
explained what happened yeah it’s never explained
uh chris rock basically is still on the force
he’s landing this spiral case and he’s gonna try
to figure it out uh sam jackson you know breaks
into his apartment and they have some of the best
uh dialogue ever between the two of them uh like
the two of them are really rift well against each
other watch the whole movie just with those two
the main thing is sam jackson eventually
invites him over to dinner at his apartment
to go over the case and movie kind of
continues and goes on and at one point chris
rock it just shows up at his father’s apartment
and there’s this delivery guy and he’s like well
what’s happening it’s like oh here’s your
food and oh is my dad home he goes into the
apartment with the food he drops it off and you
know oh i guess sam jackson’s nowhere around
well explain to me in this whole context of
this film and this is the spoiler because
basically we learn at the end sam jackson
got a text message from chris rock’s phone
and oh meet me at this uh soap factory
and so sam jackson why he he left and
tried to meet his son at the soap factory but
explain to me who just placed an order on grubhub
gets a message meet me at the soap factory and
doesn’t cancel the order doesn’t wait for the
order doesn’t like what this one is because
pat is the only person that would actually
take fault with minor grievances like this but it
doesn’t know i’m so with it because you’re a 100
percent right explain to me effort and also that
much effort but tom what restaurant takes like
two hours to deliver food i gotta know how
does chris rock get from the police station
home it like it doesn’t make any sense to me like
that what if he what if he timed the delivery
he was like hey i’m ordering it at six
because i’m gonna be busy getting ready
because my son’s coming over and i i’m
on a tight schedule i mean i don’t know
the movie really lost my attention and that’s the
stuff i’m thinking about uh another that’s safe to
say another thing that bothered me with the movie
is all the murders and i’m just going to go with
the first one all of them yeah all of them so the
first one we saw the guy you know and it’s in the
weird flashback format so the guy wakes up in a
bath water right and it’s running oh wait we’re
not including the first one oh wait that’s right
because you guys missed the one that opened the
movie yeah yeah well we were a couple members well
theater starts exactly at the time in the movies
you can tell me in a second because i i need i
need to get this out because it’s just i’m gonna
forget otherwise it’s weighing on you so the
guy has these metal things on all his fingers
and he’s in this bath and it’s let’s play a game
and he has a choice allegedly he just killed
an innocent person in a basic routine stop
and he has a choice he can survive if he basically
bites down on this piece of metal causing his
all his fingers to be ripped off but he has to
do it before the bathtub fills up because if
the bathtub fills up he’ll be electrocuted and all
i’m thinking is you’re giving me a choice between
completely maiming myself and ripping off all
my fingers which i’ll probably you know if i’m
in that situation you’re probably gonna bleed
out anyway and if you don’t then you’re gonna
have to survive the rest of your life with
no hands you know you’re on a police medical
you know disability so you’re gonna not really
have any money to uh get health care or you know
assistance like i know it’s like fighter you know
flight or whatever but like in that situation
i might just lay back in the water and let the
electricity take me well and i feel like most of
these murders it’s like just like why would i want
to live completely maimed in such a way well yeah
you might as well manipulation it’s more plot
manipulation is what it is where it’s like you
have these people right and it’s not a sense of
you got to do this and maim yourself or die but
like kind of we already have this understanding
of the audience because we’ve seen like how how
many of these movies were existed before this will
be eight movies right this is like the ninth movie
in this franchise overall it’s like we have this
expectation that we know that in some instance
like every one of these guys who goes into these
traps is going to die so like that kind of robs us
of like the anticipation and like it kind of
robs this movie of any tension you know it’s the
constant dependence on the traps and the fact that
the mystery itself is not even that compelling
because at least as far as i’m going i i figured
it out like the minute the minute that like one
of the guys disappeared or like the minute that
we saw like chris rock’s like old partner shoot
the one guy and i put two and two together i’m
like oh yeah it’s it’s it’s the you know i guess
spoiler or whatever but like i don’t care this
movie sucks it’s his partner you know i’m like oh
it’s him cool okay and i figured that out like
like the like 15 20 minutes into this hour and
a half long movie meanwhile i still have another
hour to sit through of this [ __ ] and it’s just
the traps and i’m like what um i figured it out
too christian can we honestly did you think it
was that let’s be honest like we kind of threw it
like around what time period did we figure out who
the real mastermind here was so for me it was
like hour 20 pat you’d say around the same time
like 15 hour like 15 20 minute mark um there there
was one scene uh and it was really this this is a
weird thing i think something got cut you know
because it went from a few things got caught
chris rock is talking with his partner and
he like drops them off for the day and then
it cuts to like the next day and his partner
is now dead and at least that’s what we think
and there’s a piece of skin that has the tattoo
that the partner had and you know i think that was
the absolute moment in which it was like oh okay
so he that this is someone else’s skin with the
same tattoo yep you know like that was that was
the confirmation that it was the partner because
i was already thinking it was the part like when
when the partner at some point early on is like
hey chris rock can i get your cell phone yeah oh
he’s probably the killer they all have the same
formula where it’s always like the guy who you
least expect right it’s always it’s always that
guy and like again at one point when they did that
shirt that was a cool twister reveal but now that
they’ve done that for like like 80 movies in a row
have done that now it’s like yeah we all know it
you know like make it somebody obviously as far as
that goes i think a jigsaw i wouldn’t care if it
was a zombified jigsaw that would have been cooler
so dom like a lot of movie making is following the
formula it works but adding a twist to it you know
adding something unique that people haven’t seen
before and you know it’s like we’re going along
for the ride that we’re familiar with because
it’s comfortable but we get to see these other
cool scenes or sequences that you know it’s a new
way of doing something and you know for example
i think the coolest thing i’ve seen recently
is in the tv show the nevers one of the episodes
they have this cool battle on top of a river
uh it’s an awesome fight sequence if you haven’t
seen it uh check it out i think it’s episode three
but afterwards they had like a five minute feature
about how they filmed it and i could have sat
there for two hours just watching a feature of how
they did this sequence because it’s something that
you know we’ve seen fight sequences before and but
this is something that was interesting and unique
and something that i actually wanted to dive deep
into behind the scenes i’m not sure what’s in
the spiral movie that makes me want to understand
more about how it was made like you know i think
i would like to know how chris rock
amped himself up for some of the points
that’s all i want to see like i think i think i
think chris rock dedicated a lot of energy into
this role and it was sort of like you know it’s
to admit it’s it’s the only way i can describe
it is it’s overacting but it is so we’ll save
that we’ll table that for a later segment i just
kind of want to get my thoughts on here before we
move to the next segment okay yeah go ahead chris
i uh i love the conversation you guys just
had i didn’t care enough to play that game
oh let me try and i was so checked out i was
sitting there thinking about a little bit just
so you could like get a little bit engaged you
know no i couldn’t i really wanted them to i
was very excited about this one i watched
a bunch of people’s trailer reactions like
horror might be one of my favorite like genres
in the film in the film realm and i was really
looking forward to getting a horror film in
theaters for the first time in a long time
especially because the last new horror
film i saw was saint maude which was
not as much of a train wreck i actually think
on my ride here i figured out that spiral right
now is the worst movie i’ve seen this year which
is so sad yeah it gives st maud any points but i
just didn’t want to play their game i i really
didn’t i felt cheated like of even though we
went to a theater that was pretty reasonable
which i’m really happy we found in our area
i just still feel cheated like i would have
much rather of just hung out with you guys
and got a burger and just talked about like
any literally anything else i’m just i feel so
burned by this one man it’s like so i didn’t
even want to play that game i didn’t care the
performances were so lackluster the only moments
that really gave me some hope were samuel jackson
and chris rock’s chemistry you only get that twice
and that’s it i mean it’s the cutting room floor
man must be littered with a good movie it has
to be at least i hope it is i feel like i just i
feel like i disagree with both of you i feel like
you know again i i i it doesn’t seem like you you
guys go on like amazon or netflix and watch the
4.0 or 5.0 out of 10 uh police detective movies
not at all and i hate cop drops why why would you
record yourself like that i love these movies and
the acting in this movie is actually a step above
some of the things i’ve seen so when you go out
of your way to watch bad movies of course it’s
going to but like when it’s the once in a little
while you know you you got to take these movies
for what they could get you know so we’ll talk
about the acting like in the next segment overall
but people just want to know know your thoughts
like if you thought this connected to like the
previous saw movies at all be sure to leave
them in the comment section below below be sure to
click the subscribe button and the like button on
this video and follow us on our socials talking tv
podcast facebook and instagram so chris i mean we
you you share a name obviously with the center
piece of this movie you know chris rock obviously
and look i’ll admit chris rocket’s top three
stand-up comedians for me of all time his segment
uh his stan is hour-long santa special from 04
which is never scared if i believe is probably
to me my favorite santa special of all time that [
__ ] had me laughing hard for like through several
years of high school and look i mean rock has
definitely had an interesting film career to say
the least obviously from his humble beginnings as
um uh once again i already forgot his character’s
name from new jack city but uh he’s incredible in
that movie he’s a staple of my childhood as the
voice of the zebra in the madagascar movies marty
and i i didn’t watch his semi-autobiographical
movie that came out a couple years ago top
five but man if this is like his like kind of
between this and fargo season four as like his
breakthrough into like the serious acting game
man is he missing he is missing a couple beats
as far as that goes in order to like kind of sell
himself as a serious actor like i don’t know what
he’s doing in this movie i really don’t he’s like
trying to like do some riffs for like his comedy
album one minute he’s doing bug-eyed and all
serious the next then what he’s trying to like
he’s one of those actors too that like when he’s
trying to be like you know sell like how like
serious he is in a moment he just yells a lot
and it doesn’t work at all he takes over acting
to like a whole new level in this movie and it
really sucks because pat i believe you when i when
you say that this movie comes with like a place of
passion and i truly believe that chris rock like
really didn’t want to make this just based on like
what the subject matter as far as like what the
messaging of this movie is but man just he just
he the chops that he has for being on stage with
comedy just are not the same that he brings to
like you know to the to his movie roles you know
like like guys kind of talk to me about this
how it got at the stage the question is everyone
out there can chris rock act that’s what don was
getting too and i think i think it’s you know
i think it’s very situational when it comes
to chris rock’s acting at this point based
off of what i’ve seen and what i’ve heard
i i think there is a talented human being in
there obviously in the form of a stand-up comedian
i think his personality is great too but i also
think his personality is so large that it’s really
difficult to not see him for the person and i had
an issue with that in this movie personally i had
a hard time because what i mean did he have a name
he probably did but every time they referenced
him i just heard someone was calling chris rock
yeah detective okay so like you know it’s like
that’s a forgettable name and i get it it’s
like you know it’s it’s he’s supposed to make
the name something but i don’t think he did and
i think it’s it’s his acting ability paired with
his persona and it’s was very difficult to believe
he was this detective because of that and same
with i mean you know i think samuel jackson was
so great in this movie but he wasn’t our lead
and so i feel like actors it’s very give and take
performative art style and he was kind of riffing
with chris rock and it both just felt like i was
watching because you know samuel jackson was doing
a lot of commercials lately where he actually
plays himself and i felt like it was just another
sort of like you know travolta on the phone as
santa claus to samuel jackson he’s in the kitchen
because they’re socially distancing on a
commercial and sam’s just playing himself and it
it really didn’t feel like they were playing
characters it just felt like you put chris rock
and samuel jackson in the saw universe and they
were trying to they’re damned this to get out
because it’s a terrible place to be i mean that’s
literally how i interpreted it they were trying
to play their own version of get out from within
the movie yeah even the movie they were in yeah
so even when the moments were were great because
it was those two together and their chemistry was
awesome it was for the wrong reasons at least
to me yeah pat what do you think about that man
well i i kind of like your your comment about sam
jackson playing himself in commercials like at the
the very end of this movie could have been um like
the swat team comes in and sees sam jackson in a
very compromising position he could have just said
what’s in your wallet and then cut the credits
uh that would have been better um but anyway you
know it’s uh all jokes aside on this one you know
um i disagree with you i think the acting is fine
for this type of movie uh i think over the top is
what you need to go for in this circumstance and i
think sam jackson went over the top i think chris
rock went over the top i think everybody went over
the top and i think they were consistent in that
uh deciding that this was how intense they were
going to uh portray these characters now what i
think is really at the core of the problem is not
necessarily an acting problem because this is a
campy movie you know and overacting is is there’s
a lot of leeway for that i think the issue is
the story is so incoherent that it goes
like to flashbacks and then it goes to this
character and then it goes to that character and
then all of a sudden like you know instead of a
flashback it’s like there’s a murder happening
in the moment you know so stylistically in terms
of how the story unfolds it’s so scatterbrained
that you know i think a consistent performance
is not something that we see we sort of just
see these nuggets of overacting here and there
um but the intensity they all bring to the role
i think is valid i think it it fits this sort of
campy tone of a movie that’s where i i highly
disagree because i think this movie was campy
only because it failed that literally every
serious aspect it was trying to achieve and
and i understand it’s from the book of saw
we’re not directly calling this a spa movie
uh sorry a saw movie it’s it’s spiral so it’s
it’s a spin-off but the problem is you know we
we didn’t establish a new tone and so the easy
tone to sort of fall into with the horror film
when the overacting’s there and it’s terrible
is the camping nature that has lent itself
so kindly over the years to this genre however i
don’t think this is one that’s going to be looked
back on at all positively because i think
the only reason it falls into that category
is is just because of how miserably it failed
and i think if i was like ever to teach someone
a lesson on film this would be like the movie to
pull up if i was an acting professor and be like
all of watch this movie write an essay on on
what not to do if you were given this role like
how would you make it better and it the the easy
answer would be to just literally not take the
part like this is terri like oh man like look
the one thing i’ll say as far as overacting is
like look i’m a fan of overacting in movies like
someone like al pacino just specifically has given
two of my favorite overacting performances of
all time and both he and the devil’s advocate
like chris i i highly recommend you watch those
both as far as like fantastic overacting but like
i did love two particular scenes in this movie one
the opening scene where chris rock is yelling is
just having the yelling contest back and forth
with like the female police sergeant and they’re
just yelling back and forth like the most the
most generic like shitty like cop dialogue it’s
like he’s like you you’re going to solo it’s like
yeah well that’s because i can’t trust anyone i’m
like wow like it’s almost like i felt like there
was a couple scenes where like chris rock was just
reading the script with like cute cards behind him
and then there was another scene where like when
when the same female police are getting captured
and it’s like put on the table with like the
hot wax pouring onto her face and chris rock is
yelling and the one off with like that other like
one police sergeant who’s like the only other
police sergeant who’s like not a and they’re
just having they’re yelling back and forth about
like oh she’s in a trap oh how do you know like oh
we haven’t seen her she went down to the basement
you know and it’s like i’m like guys take a minute
to breathe first off as far as that goes and i
just have to say like again i love overacting in
movies like if anything we haven’t gotten enough
overacting in movies recently you know so the kind
of part of the part of the kind of the thing that
got me through this movie was the fact that like
every person that came on is like okay at the
very least you know this person is giving 110
they know exactly the type of stereotype
they’re playing and they’re embodying it to the
nth degree so like i guess as far as where i’m at
i’m kind of like at this weird like standstill in
between you guys where it’s like it’s not enough
to save the movie but it’s also weirdly enough one
of the things that got me through it if that
makes any sense yeah yeah i guess if you have
something that got you through it that makes
sense okay not give not giving credit at all
i i’m just going to say i’m i’m totally shocked
that you were able to care that much about the
performances and not about the story problems
because okay hey that’s the thing i focus on
the areas where i actually cared about because the
story problems i recognize that like okay this is
exactly where this is going and then i’m like
oh this is the type of movie this is my brain
checked out immediately like my the way that my
brain works is if i’m watching a shitty movie
i’m automatically going to gravitate towards the
things that appeal to me because those are the
things that i’m going to remember because those
are the things that i’m going to be like you know
entertaining like when i’m having conversation
with my friends afterwards i’m like okay i’m
obviously going to want to tell them the most
entertaining part so at the very least if they do
get stuck watching this movie they’ll hopefully
be able to like gravitate towards the parts
that are like semi-good and semi-entertaining as
opposed to the parts that just don’t work at all
well i’m still i’m still trying to think uh you
know another story moment and i’m gonna bring it
up with you guys and and and hopefully you can
help me digest this so they’re chasing around
this serial killer that is going after the other
cops in the forest and and whatnot and basically
they get a call oh an officer stabbed and
they go to a grocery store and an officer
like a guy with a pig mask ran up and just stabbed
me and ran away the entire city is now focused on
this one stabbing every single cop is
on this one stabbing and that’s when
the captain angie basically gets kidnapped and
set up with this whole wax thing and it’s it’s
you know it’s one of those things
where chris rock just go he
he puts it together oh my god it’s like they’re
going after angie and he just starts screaming
angie angie and like every shot he’s in angie
angie and i’d love to see where he was like
trying to run into the precinct and he did that
like weird little skip thing i’m like wow he’s
so bad he can’t even run properly yeah yeah but
no one said that name so much since mick jagger
but i i’m i’m just still trying to
understand this plot point of like
like the whole city’s on alert for this one
stabbing because it might be the spiral killer
uh but like i the whole sequence made no
sense it’s it’s like he’s going off on a
tangent no one’s listening to him and it’s like
you had the lead detective go into the station
and he’s like where’s our captain and people
are arguing with him it’s like just tell her
or tell him you know she went to the basement
and then then it’s like oh man she got isolated
we got played like no one in this
world puts two and two together
and it’s that’s part of the reason why these
types of moves work is you need the characters
to be dumber than the audience it’s kind of part
of like the appeal of horror movies but also like
why i’m all it’s kind of part of the problem that
i’ve always had with horror movies per se where
it’s like okay well to me the minute that the
audience is smarter than the movie that’s when
the movie loses you right the fact that you’ve had
an entire genre that rests almost entirely on the
fact that the audience is almost always one step
ahead that creates a whole litany of problems in
it of itself with the genre then you get this
movie where it’s like oh we’re gonna try and
double that to the effect where now we’re almost
gonna do like this parody-esque approach where
we’re gonna have this full like really really
bad full message about like kind of like you know
like police brutality and like kind of all the you
know the right ways in order to like approach that
as far as like the motivations of the mastermind
and then you this guy is so confident that the
that the cop i said like the moves that the cops
are gonna make that he literally just reveals
himself to chris rock at the end like there’s no
there isn’t even like a grand reveal like kind
of like a oh him trying to like be chris rock’s
friend which is usually the go-to approach like
in the last scenario before he reveals himself
as an asteroid no he’s just sitting there
at a table like oh hey i’m the bad guy and you
know and it leads to like where we have sam
jackson like strung up i’m like what is so weak
you know the only thing i just agree with you
there i don’t think it was a faux message as much
as i think it was so mishandled so poorly executed
that’s right and it just comes off in like it just
doesn’t do it a service you know because there is
obviously a chance to really you know drive home
a very sort of very politically poignant narrative
here and and there’s an elegant way to do it but
i just think it really fell short it just like i
i don’t know where the ball was dropped in this
movie i feel like everyone kind of shoulders the
blame equally it’s just it’s it’s so sad because
i was really looking forward to this one guys and
you know there’s like so many moments in this film
that i think honestly like what am i watching here
like when they’re sitting around even the
the the uh you know the pre-recorded videos
of spiral sort of talking to them and dropping
them those like usb chips he even it felt like
he was even overacting there like he jumped the
gun every time he was like getting the words out
so fast do you want to play a game and there’s
that one the one moment it’s almost like he had
the right fast forward when he was playing them
yeah it’s like annoying it’s like the one moment
for the third act where like he conveniently
pauses so they can figure out what’s happening
around them it was like watching the flash
when they’re like about to fight a villain
and like barry walks into the room and he goes
cisco did you work up the machine and then you
know the girl who turns all ice he goes well we
had an issue with that machine and cisco goes
because the you know flex capacitor didn’t work
right and then the uh and then you know like uh
the dude who just quit the show comes in and
he’s like i’m not from this dimension but even
i knew that wasn’t gonna happen and it’s like so
lame i hate those moments and it was so lame dude
like so i don’t think anything had a chance to
to thrive in this movie i think the overacting
was a huge part of why that was killed but actors
are only responsible for so much like they have
to work with what they’re given aside from one
great line which if pat wants to uh dive in and
talk about how much of an impact that made on
him uh you know he can aside from a few great
one-liners from chris rock i mean before pat jumps
in i just wanted to point out one thing too also
about the village just as far like first of all
the fact that this is an owl movie is only an hour
and a half long and about like 20 minutes of their
flashbacks and like should just tell you something
as far as how much material that actually
had for this movie but also i love this scene
if i could just point out one scene that kind of
gave me like a chuckle and i’m not sure whether
it was in a good or bad way but the scene
where they’re doing the playback of like show
all the different ways that like max miguel like
manipulated everyone the scene where like if chris
rock is having the phone conversation with him and
he’d like you you hear the baby in the background
noise but then it’s like they show it like he was
planted from his laptop i’m like okay i don’t know
what kind of like sound projection was like going
on from here but like i definitely heard that baby
noise coming off from the side you know there’s no
way that like the laptop microphone can’t project
in like all different sorts of directions you
know actually you can explain that though really
okay i mean you’re the sound guys you can just
oh okay i gotta hear your explanation for this
then so i’m pretty sure that there was a bose
speaker in samuel jackson’s apartment and so i
think they probably decked everyone out in this
movie with home surround sound bose speaker so
he’s playing it off of his laptop but it’s
bluetooth connecting it’s one of the only threads
you can connect in this movie you know that big
board where chris rod’s trying to staple things
talking about it’s like the only
thread you can connect that’s perfect
problem solved all right at least we can answer
a few a few of the things about this movie
the speakers in the laptop could have been the
spatial kind that basically make it sound like
that was probably part of that has been doing a
lot of that lately with like podcasts and stuff
the character is a really good audio mixer
let’s just say that but uh he finds the time
to audio mix and also uh kills he’s a good
video editor i mean some of his little video
clips he dropped on the cops out of this he’s
got like job prospects as far as keeping that
i i just you know how does his job how does
he support himself you know like he’s too busy
he’s a cop first and foremost i mean i don’t
know what kind of cop salary they are but like
they made it seem like sam jackson was still
like paying chris rock’s rent even though like
chris rock should be able to like afford i don’t
know again like what chris wreck what like what
not chris rock what chris was saying before the
editing the the editing floor the cutting floor
as far as that goes is probably like filled like
up to here with like excess footage that they had
to cut i don’t know the main thing is uh going
there’s a lot of things i want to address but
the bad guy again it comes down to the final
moment where chris rock has one bullet and a
gun and it’s like oh that killed me when i
saw you you can you can kill me the bad guy
or you could shoot that target up there and
save something save your dad but like ex
i’m sorry logically let’s say i’m in that
situation and the bad guy’s in front of me my
father’s up on this sort of elaborate system and
there’s about eight pails below him and all his
blood has been drained out of the system there’s
probably like 10 minutes left for him to live
i i i yes i i do care about my family members but
this evil guy versus i’m not going to be able to
get this man that’s hanging to the hospital and
save his life number wait you’re missing the best
part the best part which is that take out that guy
as he’s explaining this to him and as sam jackson
is saying one of the only two lines that i really
wanted to hear him say which i just wanted to say
as far as my sam jackson like badass blind quota i
got them i got the one line where i know they cut
off the [ __ ] whether you want to play games
[ __ ] i got that and then i got to shoot this
[ __ ] which again he was kind of like bleeding
out so it was kind of like muffled as far as that
goes but he got that line out at the very least
i’m like all right i got my sam jackson line quota
but then the funniest part is as he’s explaining
as he’s explaining what chris rock has to do
in order to save his dad he’s literally setting
up the next trap that’s already gonna happen would
like the police inevitably cut through the door
and he could strung up again in a way prolonging
his life just so that he could get shot like like
by these police officers coming in at the i’m like
just the ludicrousness of just the overall setup
of this i’m like what like i just i think chris
it’s so funny because we literally just watched
a movie last night where i had to explain
how it broke my brain but like that ending
right there i’m just like aside from the just
blatant mishandling of it i’m like where is the
logic here when he literally like well like this
there’s characters not being able to figure out
like the obvious way in order to get out of these
scenarios and then there’s this you know yeah and
if you want to talk about further lapses of logic
before we i guess move to our final topic here
while that scene was taking place where sam
jackson’s sitting up there his blood’s being
drained his son is taking a year and a day to
make this choice first of all his father probably
lost gotta wait for the villain to get done with
his evil villain monologue first yeah yeah i
guess they’re very he’s very polite as a cop
um and then so he like fights him in like this
elevator and then he gets out of the elevator and
they wave at the villain as the swat team busts in
and he just like floats down and everyone like is
seeing in full swat gear watching this guy fall
down and like the slowest old school elevator of
all time and he’s just like see you guys part
two and it’s like what the like what the hell
like that was a terrible location if that’s what
you wanted his like his like smooth escape nothing
was smooth about that you’re watching the guy go
down at the very least at the very least and again
i’m not trying to make up for this movie’s fault
at all but at the very kind of understood that
where again he was trying to frame he was trying
to use the context obviously built up behind the
purported corruption in this department in
order to frame sam jackson and chris rock as
like both one halves of like the spiral duo kind
of clearing him of suspicion so at the very least
that made sense but then once the elevator
doors come down and chris rock is like
screaming at him when they’re trying to do the
obvious homage to the first one i’m just like
what like you’re you’re just gonna let this guy
go like all of your attention is focused here
like just again the latency i’m like what is
happening well this goes back to the sort of
the message of the film right because you
know sam jackson is stringed like a puppet
and basically the bad guy has set the final trap
of sam jackson now his arms are being raised and
suddenly a gun pops up and the swat team comes
in and it’s the idea that uh this you know police
officers see a black man with a gun and so they
just open fire and they’re gonna ask questions
later and that’s sort of the final moment of the
film that we’re left on but in the context of saw
a swat team going into this situation that sees
a man strapped to this weird puppeteer thing
like is that their first reaction is just they
see a gun-like object or they see a man that’s
being tortured to death like i to me it’s
it’s it undercuts the message that you know
they’re trying to have in this film and it’s i
i understand the message you know i i you know
can see the whole idea of police brutality and
you know someone that’s doing vigilante justice
and using the whole saw backstory to sort of
punish these corrupt cops um you know and how
maybe if if someone is a vigilante this will sort
of change the system you know and and maybe that’s
a corrupt thought from the bad guy like there’s
there is this message in in subtext in this film
but you know i don’t think it really is clear
what they’re trying to communicate whereas black
christmas unfortunately i have to say it’s very
full circle it’s very clear on the message they’re
trying to say which is they took a very specific
um you know misogynistic horror movie in the past
you know it’s just basically young women you know
prancing around in their underwear type of movie
and they flipped black christmas when they remade
it to be sort of a little bit of a empowerment
movie where the women sort of you know uh take
control and they take down the the male bad guys
and they you know i guess the one the one
the one woman arrives we’ll bring it back
the one yeah but like the main thing is that
message actually came across and made sense
i remember saying like you know it’s a kind of
trashy horror movie but it actually had a good
message and it was clear whereas this you know
spiral is just a trashy movie and this the message
is muddled and you know i i could see the message
i can understand the message i could see what they
were going for uh i just don’t think it was um you
know as clear as it it could have been or at least
as um it didn’t pay off as expected yep i couldn’t
agree more with that so with that being said guys
what did you think about our conversation
about the overacting chris rock’s performance
the message sort of being muddled by the many
flaws of this film let us know your thoughts in
the comments below be sure to subscribe to our
channel hit the like button on this video turn
on that bell for notifications and of course
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podcast so our last topic let’s get into it guys
um i want to know how does this impact future
horror reboots and and i’ll even add a second
point to that do you think that the performance of
this movie since they clearly left it open-ended
do you think it’s gonna impact you know if if we
see the follow-up to this because i don’t see it
being received well i’m i’m already hoping this
movie flops at like whatever sort of like
is the equivalent of the box office today
as far as you know both in theaters and then
obviously once it obviously hits streaming uh
i i could maybe see this like being like a weird
like kind of streaming like cult hit when it
hit streaming but like i don’t see this being a
tremendous success i mean again they did a really
really good job with the marketing and like horror
movies are like the last kind of vestiges of like
old school cinema that could survive outside of
like superhero and other spectacle-filled movies
but ugh just no i just just the thought of seeing
more of the movie from this franchise but like
again the soft franchise was not exactly like the
most highest sought after franchise but like they
were like there were they’d always had it’s like
cultish fans like that and it had people come
out and i’m like i just don’t see this like
kind of having that kind of like raw appeal
with this many soft fans you know i think it’s
if anything it’s gonna be more so a matter of
just people are finally happy to go out and see
a movie in theaters again but as far as like the
kind of the overall quality of this impacting like
whether or not it’s gonna get sequels just please
god i hope this is i never ever root for a movie
to fail but this is one instance where i’m like
yeah if they were ever to like kind of just let
this one kind of die you know die a quick death
then i i’d be more than happy for it you know if
anything it kind of makes me more scared because
like this is not going to be the last one
of these like kind of weird like kind of
pseudo follow-up reboots to like previous horror
franchises that we’ve gotten you know kind of
the franchise resets we’re obviously getting
the next halloween movie later this year we’re
getting the new candy man later this year so i
mean definitely for me if this is kind of the
startup of that it does not bode well for the rest
of these movies that’s all i can say yeah i think
it’s one of those situations where you know you
said that you use the word raw when describing
the first movie and i think that obviously it’s a
very raw film and i think that’s why it’s it’s not
it’s you know it’s the first saw is not appealing
to mass audiences you know it’s it’s one of those
films that we only have because of the descent
desensitization of our society based on just
over the years how we’ve slowly and surely keep
upping the ante of how you know grotesque and
and disturbing we make these horror films and so
i think even with that being said saw for the time
was very um groundbreaking and so because of that
i think it was always going to have sort of like
a culti fan base but but it was it was still a
well done movie and it still captured something
that an audience was looking for clearly
we’ve had eight other saw installments made
i think that this one it’s only life it’s only
lifeblood here is clinging to the name of uh
of a franchise which while i think its rawness is
its strongest point and also its greatest weakness
because it being so raw and so real and gritty the
in the past this is why i would love to get your
thoughts on the first saw movie should you ever
watch it because i think while the word raw bodes
really strongly and negatively for it at least it
it allows people to gravitate towards it at least
it gives them it gives an audience a chance to
find this movie because it was executed so well
whereas this one again like i said it really
feels like someone was uh not like a fan film but
playing playing dress up and and just like
trying out if they want to like you know
make a horror film and what would it be like and
if we had to like sort of just do this on the fly
you know like let’s pretend and it just it didn’t
feel real is what i’m trying to say it didn’t feel
like a saw film it didn’t feel really like
anything of value and so that’s that’s why i
think you know boating well for the future of the
saw franchise i hope that this movie is kind of
adopted as a distant cousin if anything because
they didn’t thank god to use the actual saw
title in this um and uh for saw fans sake right
and i think in regards to like future reboots
i’m not worried i think each individual franchise
deserves its own sort of like fresh-minded
approach because i’m not gonna go into the new
candyman reboot thinking like oh well the new saw
reboot was terrible unless a lot of the same names
were attached now that’s a different conversation
i don’t know that offhand but i i think you know
horror fans are you know they’re going to get
their reboots man i mean they kind of get every
fourth movie in a reboot anyways and then rob
zombie comes along right if you’re talking
about this movie i have sitting right here
and we reboot it in a different way it’s like
horror fans are no stranger to the reboot i think
it’s just they don’t necessarily always
call it a reboot and uh they they
you know they pretend there was a book the
killer originally had and so they they go
off that you know but pat what’s your take on
everything dom and i are saying that’s fantastic
christian the fact that you bring up rob zombie
is is the reason why i think they’ll uh you know
uh chris rock sequel in the saw universe will
happen because they did something different with
the series and hey let’s give them another shot
you know obviously the numbers have to pan out for
them to do that but i think you know they’ll be
good enough and basically they’ll get another shot
and i think they’ll hopefully you know take it
in a slightly different direction uh and you
know maybe bring back some of the elements they
had that were successful here and then try some
new stuff uh that will hopefully make the next one
better now for the most part i i don’t watch these
types of movies like i think back like hostile was
one of the first ones that sort of did this like
sadistic sort of murdering torture type stuff and
i just got turned off to the whole like direction
that horror movies were taking where it’s just you
know hey we’re just going to try to gross you out
with sick you know uh props and and uh disgusting
scenes uh it’s it’s just not for me uh when you
said spiral i literally thought this was gonna
be a live action uh movie about a purple dragon
and i when i found out sam jackson and chris rock
were in that i was like oh my god this is gonna be
the best video game movie ever uh and then i found
out it was a saw movie um but yeah which by the
way they remade two years ago and i heard it was
pretty good but uh so um you know again you know
it’s it’s i i didn’t watch any of the
other solo movies because it’s not my genre
uh to watch sadistic you know basically torture uh
you know style movies i just don’t think there’s
any real value to them so you know i’m not the
target audience in this regard and you know going
into this movie it’s it just really it never did
anything for me because there was no story um and
so in terms of a reboot like i don’t i there’s
nothing i can say about it you know it’s it’s
i i’ll have to watch the first one if i ever care
to and i doubt i will but oh don’t let that don’t
let this one taint that yeah don’t let it
take this one it’s legitimately great i i
even i came around on it but i have no interest
in watching people saw their limbs off you know
it’s like there’s just no you’re letting this one
get in the way of that the first one is so much
it’s not even just that it’s the fact of kind of
what the franchise came to because the franchise
ended up doing what every horror movie horror
franchise does is it obviously gets away from
what made the first one great and just becomes
about like the you know the the shtick which in
this case is the traps but the first movie is like
not it like actually is like a legitimately like
engaging mystery as far as how it’s engaging it’s
really impressive what james juan and lei wennell
pulled off with the relatively like small micro
budget of what that first movie went for yeah and
now the first one is a master class of like what
to do right in in these how to make something so
disgustingly and offensively grotesque still
have an artistic value an artistic side
to it so i i wouldn’t let this one’s lack of
anything that gives it a leg to stand on be uh
an indicator of it because i do think you actually
might enjoy it a little bit um because it is it
is interesting also to see them work within those
budgetary restraints but it seems like we’re kind
of uh done with the whole reboot topic so i mean
you know what what do you guys think do you guys
think that this you know deserves a second shot
how do you think this is going to bode for like
dom said candyman and some of the other horror
reboots we have coming down the pipeline this year
let us know your thoughts in the comments below
of course be sure to subscribe leave a comment
uh you know give this video a thumbs up hit that
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already said because i want to say thank you for
subscribing that’s what i was trying to get out
but it’s late and i’m getting tired thank you guys
for watching our content we really appreciate it
um so star ratings fellas yeah let’s get this
over with um i’ll go first this movie sucked
um i don’t want to talk about it anymore that i
already have pat summed it up perfectly before i
love chris rock but man was he the wrong choice
just for everything involved with this movie
this movie had every chance for me to actually be
engaging and compelling and it went for the shlock
shticky root and the problem is it couldn’t even
make its mystery compelling enough in order to get
me through all the way to the end and had to rely
on some really bad tropes and cliches uh i hate
this movie so much it’s my least favorite movie
of the year the fact that i’ve seen this many
bad movies already at the 20 this far into 2021 is
not a good sign this movie earns the lowest rating
i’ve given a movie so far this officially wins
the capone award from last year as to what the
[ __ ] happened here one and a half out of five
stars from me for spiral from the book of saw also
where’s the [ __ ] book well i i know you were
trying to make that joke before chris but like
seriously there’s no book here like what does that
even mean maybe it was an e-book i don’t maybe
i don’t know i don’t know either way we
missed out on that one hold on i think it
you know the killer probably studied
the case files on the original saw
and that’s that’s the only reading material i can
think of probably it’s the only one that it’s the
only one that makes sense so i think i think
it has it it must be sort of like i guess you
mentioned disciples in some of the other movies so
he’s the new disciple he’s taking from that book
maybe it’s a religious connection of some
weird kind maybe i i have no idea yeah
and i don’t care to find out something else
this movie is the worst movie i’ve seen
this year i thought saint maude was already
the biggest heartbreak being such a terrible
film from a24 but apparently you know never say
never is what i learned from this movie and uh
i never thought i would give this low of a score
this is crazy but i’m gonna say this movie is a
0.5 it was that terrible i hated my time with
this movie so uh with that being said pat it
was fun hanging out with you guys of course
but i hated my time every one of these movies
are always so much fun but uh pat man where are
you leaving us here what defcon level i suppose
we’re not going there come on uh because
legit you don’t want nuclear warfare on
your hands i get it ever there was a time
to bring back the defcon rating legitimately
if you want to watch you know
sam jackson and chris rock
do something interesting sure you know watch
this movie give it a try i guess uh but if
if you want to watch a movie that’s zero out of
five stars watch this movie wow wow zero one star
it’s not one of those like it’s not my genre
first of all and it never will be and i just
the the story is so convoluted and the message
is just slightly off point for sure only slightly
yeah it’s like i understand what they’re going
for and it’s sort of a modern you know thing to
message to get out there but you know it’s it’s
just like what what are you actually saying you
know it i don’t know so and that’s that’s the
biggest part of my frustration i think is the way
that they step on their own toes in in a situation
where they could have made such a i thought great
statement but whatever that’s how we think about
it that’s how we feel about this movie and yeah
so watch it you know to think about it but uh i
just don’t expect that just given the amount of
thought you can actually get out of this movie i
don’t think that even we can even say that with
a straight face overall because yeah well anyways
this was still a fun time so i’m glad we did this
i had a flat this is the most fun that i’ve had
recording a podcast like in a while because we
haven’t had one of these chances like actually
go out see a bad movie in theaters and roast it
for a little bit i’m i’m yeah it’s a nice
return to form i will say i’ll probably
uh look out for some reviews and read it and
try to get some differing opinions because
like you know it’s one of those things where you
go in it’s i wasn’t really that entertained but
uh maybe someone can make a valid point and i can
see their argument and you know i’ll spend some
time tracking that down but i’m not gonna make a
career out of it so to speak you know it’s like
re read you know a couple couple articles and
and just see what other people are are gleaning
from this but uh this is that this is one of
those movies where it’s like a man i cannot
wait and this doesn’t happen that often
specifically with the movies that i gravitate
towards but this is one of those movies that
i think chris you could relate to this where
it’s like oh man i can’t wait to talk to
my co-workers about how bad this movie was
to answer the question that you brought
up of how this will impact other things
like uh like candyman stuff like that it’s like i
don’t think this this is like a drop in the bucket
like people will watch it uh some people like it
sometimes this is a drop in the bucket all right
like me we’ll forget about it uh and then we’ll
move on to the next thing so i’m curious i hope
people put stuff in the comments uh so that we
can listen to uh you know what other people think
for sure yeah this was dropping the bucket on the
modern digital editing bay and completely ruining
the majority of the hard drives and just being
left with like what we got i mean honestly that
that’s the only thing i i i saw from this oh man
that’s funny that’s funny so people that was it
those were our thoughts on spiral from the book
of saw as you can clearly see skip this movie
like it’s the [ __ ] plague uh just just based on
everything that we’ve said about it let us know
your thoughts either way in the comments below
what you thought of this episode be sure to also
click watch all the rest of the clips that we’ve
put up on youtube be sure to follow professor pat
at everything that he’s doing pat where can the
good people find you online yeah i’m still just uh
threatening to post something on instagram so at
patrick w huber and yeah hey i’ll post something
at some point and hopefully you’re holding your
followers hostage there yeah right yeah you know
it’s it’s a strategy right you know if i get
enough subscribers i’ll post something for sure
meredith fair enough dude i hope you do
man for all of our sake yeah i’m doing
the opposite strategy most people do
so uh chris where can people find you
yeah yeah you guys can find me not watching
this movie ever again at christian ivanko on
all the social medias ivanko spelled e-v-a-n-k-o
i make music that is much better than this movie
and you can find that through the link
in my bio i have a second podcast that’s
so much better than this movie and you can
find that through the link in my bio as well
um in all seriousness guys check it out see it
what else is really in theaters but you know yeah
can i reiterate one last point is like they did
put some hard work into this like it definitely
oh wait pat you never got to talk about the line
no no don’t worry about it but uh the the film
you know the the craft behind the film is
probably spectacular um so you know listen
it’s not the best movie it didn’t have the best
impact uh but people worked hard on it and i’ll
i’ll say i appreciate yeah i mean i do too i
just you know i say that the only reason why i
i don’t necessarily is i’m like look it’s
it’s this is what these people get paid to do
you know so i’m not going to give i’m not going
to give credit where it’s like oh at least they
got paid to work on it great they got paid to work
on a piece of [ __ ] well so not to dedicate their
efforts at all but like if i say that about
everything it’s like but tom where can they
continue uh talking to you about this uh you know
they can reach out directly to me through facebook
and instagram at movie note reviews where i just
made a sarcastic post about how i still don’t
believe that james cameron is going to release
four avatar sequels in the next eight years or so
but they can follow my facebook and instagram for
all of that information they can follow us right
here on the talking tv channel on facebook and
instagram at talking tv podcast in order to keep
up with everything we have going on and people
from all of us spiraling slowly out of control
as we surely have 12 seasons into short film
and watch more [ __ ] movies we’ll see you guys
you