ISIS claims responsibility for Moscow venue shooting being investigated as ‘terrorist attack'
>>> GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. WELCOME TO “THE REIDOUT.” JASON JOHNSON IN FOR JOY REID. AGAIN TONIGHT WITH THE BREAKING NEWS OUT OF MOSCOW WHERE A SHOOTING ATTACK HAS LEFT AT LEAST 40 DEAD AND OVER 100 INJURED. THAT’S ACCORDING TO RUSSIAN STATE NEWS AGENCIES. THIS IS WHAT WE KNOW RIGHT
NOW. THE ATTACK OCCURRED AT CROCUS CITY HALL, A LARGE CONCERT VENUE NORTHWEST OF CENTRAL MOSCOW. ACCORDING TO OUR VIEWERS, WE’RE ABOUT TO SHOW SOME DISTURBING VIDEOS. YOU’RE NOW SEEING THE INSIDE OF THE CONCERT HALL WHERE AT LEAST THREE MEN IN CAMOUFLAGE BROKE IN AND OPENED FIRE. SHOOTING AN
UNKNOWN NUMBER OF PEOPLE. RUSSIAN OFFICIALS SAY SEVERAL OF THESE GUNMEN FIRES AUTOMATIC WEAPONS AT THE CROWD. THE FIRE ALSO STARTED INSIDE THE VENUE. FIREFIGHTERS EVACUATED ABOUT 100 PEOPLE FROM THE BASEMENT OF THE BUILDING AND EFFORTS ARE UNDER WAY TO RESCUE PEOPLE FROM THE ROOF. WHO COMMITTED THIS AND
WHY IS STILL VERY MUCH UNKNOWN. ISLAMIC STATE KNOWN AS ISIS HAS CLAIMED RESPONSIBILITY, BUT WITHOUT PROVIDING PROOF FOR THE ATTACK ON THE CONCERT VENUE. THEIR CLAIM CAME FROM AN ISIS AFFILIATED ACCOUNT ON TELEGRAM. NBC NEWS HAS NOT YET VERIFIED THE CLAIM, BUT RUSSIAN OFFICIALS SAID THEY WERE INVESTIGATING
THE ATTACK AS A TERRORIST ATTACK. LET’S BRING IN MICHAEL McFAUL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA. PETER BAKER, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR “THE NEW YORK TIMES” WHO PREVIOUSLY
JOHN, I WANT TO START WITH YOU ON THIS. THE IDEA THAT ISIS OR SOMEONE IN CONTROL OF THE ISIS TELEGRAM ACCOUNT HAS CLAIMED RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS, HOW CREDIBLE IS THAT, JUST FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE? AND WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVATION FOR ISIS TO COMMIT THIS KIND OF TERROR ATTACK
IN RUSSIA? >> WELL, IT’S A VERY CRITICAL CLAIM. ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT THE U.S. EMBASSY ISSUED A PUBLIC WARNING EARLIER THIS MONTH ABOUT EXTREMISTS PLANNING TO CARRY OUT AN ATTACK. THAT USUALLY REFERS TO THESE FANATIC ISLAMIC GROUPS. ISIS-K HAS LONG BELIEVES THE RUSSIANS HAVE SUPPRESSED THE MUSLIMS IN SYRIA,
AFGHANISTAN, AND IN THE CAUCUS ESAS WELL. THEREFORE, I THINK ISLAMIC MILITANTS, IT’S VERY BELIEVABLE THEY WERE THE ONES TO CARRY OUT THE ATTACK. THE FACT THEY MOWED DOWN INDIVIDUALS AND CLEARLY IT WAS AN EFFORT TO TRY TO CAUSE HAVOC AND KILL AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. SO THEREFORE,
I DO BELIEVE THAT WE’RE HEARING, AT LEAST SOME INITIAL REPORTS INCLUDING FROM SOME AMERICAN OFFICIALS, THAT IT WAS ISIS, WHICH IS A LARGE GROUP NOW. IT HAS A NUMBER OF UMBRELLA GROUPS UNDERNEATH IT THAT REALLY IS FROM AFGHANISTAN, FROM PAKISTAN, IN THAT AREA. AND IT LOOKS AS THOUGH
THIS WAS PLANNED FOR QUITE SOME TIME BECAUSE THEY WERE ABLE TO DEFEAT RUSSIAN SECURITY SERVICES AND CARRY OUT THIS ATTACK. >> AMBASSADOR McFAUL, IT’S BOTH SHOCKING AND SURPRISING TO SEE THIS SORT OF ATTACK HAPPEN WITHIN RUSSIA. ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, WE HEARD FROM AN AIDE FROM PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY IN UKRAINE
TWEETING OUT, UKRAINE CERTAINLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SHOOTING, EXPLOSIONS AT CROCUS CITY HALL. IT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. JUST STRATEGICALLY SPEAKING, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, IT MAKES SENSE FOR UKRAINE TO IMMEDIATELY COME OUT AND DISAVOW ANY SORT OF ASSOCIATION WITH THIS. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN
FIND CREDIBLE RIGHT NOW? IS IT SOMETHING THAT THEY’RE JUST SAYING BECAUSE THEY NEED TO SAY THIS, OR WOULD IT REALLY BE FOOLISH STRATEGICALLY FOR THE UKRAINIANS WHO ARE IN A VERY BLOODY BATTLE TO RESIST RUSSIAN AGGRESSION TO BE ANYWHERE CONNECTED TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS? >> I THINK IT’S
VERY CREDIBLE. AND IT’S CONSISTENT WITH THE PATTERN OF THE WAY THAT UKRAINE IS FIGHTING RUSSIA. AND THE INVADING FORCES IN THEIR COUNTRY RIGHT NOW. THEY’RE DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO TRY TO FIGHT BACK. THEY’RE STRIKING TARGETS INSIDE RUSSIA, WHAT THEY CONSIDER TO BE MILITARY TARGETS. AND I BELIEVE
THAT TO BE TRUE. BUT THEY HAVE NEVER DONE TERRORIST ATTACKS. AT LEAST TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, AGAINST RUSSIANS ANYWHERE. AND THEREFORE, THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THEM NOT DOING THAT. I WOULD UNDERSCORE THAT THAT’S OPPOSITE FROM THE WAY THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT FIGHTS INSIDE UKRAINE, WHERE THEY ARE
TERRORIZING UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS ALL THE TIME, INCLUDING LAST NIGHT IN KYIV. UKRAINE DOES NOT FIGHT THAT WAY. NOW THAT WE HAVE ISIS-K TAKING CREDIT FOR IT, I THINK THAT UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE SHOULD BE THE WORKING HYPOTHESIS, AND THOSE RUSSIANS, INCLUDING SOME FORMER OFFICIALS THAT IMMEDIATELY BLAMED UKRAINE, THAT TO
ME WAS A VERY SHAMEFUL ACT. >> AMBASSADOR, I WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH THIS. I LOOKED UP A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE GROUP THAT WAS PERFORMING. IT WAS A ROCK BAND CALLED PICNIC. THEY ACTUALLY WERE BANNED FROM PERFORMING IN UKRAINE SINCE 2016 BECAUSE THEY PERFORMED IN CRIMEA. DO
YOU THINK THERE WAS ANY SORT OF SYMBOLISM TO THIS? DO YOU THINK THAT NOT JUST THE VENUE BUT THE BAND HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS? OR DO YOU REALLY THINK, AGAIN, IT’S MORE LIKELY TO BE ISIS BECAUSE IT DOESN’T FIT THE STRATEGY OF THE UKRAINIAN ARMY? >>
I DON’T KNOW. THAT’S A GREAT QUESTION. I DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER. I DO KNOW THE BAND, BY THE WAY. AND IT’S KIND OF A HIPPIE BAND FROM THE LATE ’70s, EARLY ’80s. IT’S NOT A PRO-PUTIN GROUP THAT WOULD BE THERE IF I WERE GUESSTIMATING. I DON’T KNOW OF
ANY PARTICULAR REASON WHY THEY WOULD STRIKE THERE. OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT THE OWNER OF THIS COMPLEX IS CLOSE TO MR. PUTIN. SO MAYBE THAT IS WHY THEY TARGETED THIS PARTICULAR PLACE. >> PETER BAKER, I WANT TO STEP BACK FOR A SECOND. THE WORLD HAS MADE IT PRETTY
CLEAR THAT THEY WANT TO BE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY. THERE AREN’T MANY PEOPLE BACKING RUSSIA’S INVASION OF UKRAINE, IT’S NOT A POPULAR WAR EVEN WITHIN RUSSIA. SO WHAT ARE SORT OF PUTIN’S OPTIONS HERE? BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE AN ATTACK LIKE THIS HAPPEN, EVEN RIGHT AFTER A
LAND SLIDE ELECTION THAT HE JUST RECENTLY WON, DOES THIS WEAKEN HIM? ARE THERE ALLIES THAT ARE GOING TO COME TO HIS AID FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO THIS ATTACK? WHERE DOES PUTIN FIND SORT OF A SENSITIVE OR EMPATHETIC EAR AFTER FACING THIS SORT OF ATTACK GIVEN WHAT HIS ARMY
HAS BEEN DOING IN UKRAINE FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS NOW? >> YEAH, I THINK THAT’S A FAIR POINT. HE DOESN’T HAVE A LOT OF SYMPATHY, AT LEAST NOT IN THE WEST. NOT EUROPE OR THE UNITED STATES. HE DID, THOUGH, GET A WARNING FROM THE UNITED STATES ABOUT THIS VERY
ATTACK. NOT ONLY DID THE U.S. EMBASSY SAY ON MARCH 7th THERE WAS INDICATIONS OF SOME SORT OF A LARGE SCALE POSSIBLE ATTACK BY EXTREMISTS INCLUDING AT A CONCERT VENUE, BUT AMERICAN OFFICIALS SAY THEY SPECIFICALLY TALKED TO THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT ABOUT THAT. GAVE THEM WHATEVER INFORMATION THEY HAD TO
GIVE THEM AT THAT TIME. THEY DID HAVE HELP FROM THE UNITED STATES EVEN AS WE ARE, OF COURSE, AT ODDS OVER UKRAINE. BUT YOU’RE RIGHT TO ASK THE QUESTION OF WHAT PUTIN DOES NOW. THIS MAKES HIM LOOK WEAK. ADD LEAST IN HIS EYES. HE HAS HISTORICALLY LOOKED AT
TERRORIST ATTACK IN MOSCOW, WHICH WERE QUITE COMMON 20 YEARS AGO AROUND THE TIME HE FIRST CAME TO POWER, AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO — FIRST OF ALL, AS A SHOW OF WEAKNESS ON HIS PART WHICH HE NEEDS TO DISPEL, AND USE THEM AS AN OPPORTUNITY THEN TO MAKE POLITICAL,
YOU KNOW, MOVES THAT CRACK DOWN ON DISSENT. I WAS IN RUSSIA IN 2004 WHEN TERRORISTS TOOK OVER A SCHOOL IN A SMALL TOWN. AND THE FIRST THING THAT HAPPENED, 330 PEOPLE DIED, HALF OF THEM SCHOOL CHILDREN. THE FIRST THING PUTIN DID WAS BLAME THE WEST, AND SECOND OF
ALL, HE CANCELED ALL ELECTIONS OF GOVERNORS FROM THEN ON. NOT JUST GOVERNORS IN THE REGION WHERE IT HAPPENED, NOT JUST TEMPORARILY, BUT ALL ACROSS THE 11 TIME ZONES OF RUSSIA. WHY? BECAUSE IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM TO SAY WE NEED MORE CENTRAL CONTROL FROM THE KREMLIN IN
A COUNTRY WHERE SUCH A TERRORIST ATTACK COULD HAPPEN. YOU COULD EASILY SEE HIM USING THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO FURTHER CLAMP DOWN ON DISSENT. THERE’S NOT A LOT OF ROOM FOR DISSENT AS IT IS IN RUSSIA RIGHT NOW. BUT THAT WOULD BE HIS NATURAL PLAYBOOK, LOOKING AT HISTORY.
>> FORMER DIRECTOR BRENNAN, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THIS IDEA THAT PUTIN HAD A WARNING. EVEN THE UNITED STATES SAID, HEY, LOOK, THIS COULD POTENTIALLY HAPPEN. YOU’RE IN DANGER, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. JUST FOR THE UNINFORMED AND UNINITIATED. WE ARE ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF RUSSIA. WE
ARE DEFENDING UKRAINE. THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION STILL CONSIDERED A PROBLEM. THERE’S NO QUESTION THERE UNLESS YOU HAPPEN TO BE A CERTAIN KIND OF REPUBLICAN. WHAT IS THE INCENTIVE? WHAT WAS THE INCENTIVE OF THE UNITED STATES TO GIVE WARNINGS ON TERRORIST ATTACKS LIKE THIS TO PUTIN’S GOVERNMENT? AND THE FACT
THAT THIS CAME TRUE, DOES IT IN ANY WAY THAW RELATIONS? ARE THERE ANY SORT OF UNDERCOVER THANK YOUS OCCURRING OR DO THE RUSSIANS IGNORE THIS AND SAY, WELL, YOU WARNED US ABOUT SOMETHING. >> U.S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY TAKES VERY SERIOUSLY ITS RESPONSIBILITY. THEY GET INFORMATION ABOUT PLANNED TERRORIST ATTACKS
AGAINST TARGETS AROUND THE WORLD. AND IT’S CREDIBLE. IT’S RELIABLE, AND ESPECIALLY IF IT’S SPECIFIC, WHICH THIS ONE, WE WILL SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITH THE FOREIGN SERVICES, THE SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE SERVICES. AND CLEARLY, THERE WAS SOME SIGNIFICANT SPECIFICITY TO THIS WHEN THERE WAS REFERENCE TO CONCERT HALLS AND IN
COMING DAYS. SO THE TIMING OF THIS WARNING I THINK WAS VERY MUCH ON TARGET IN TERMS OF WHAT HAPPENED HERE. I’M SURE IT WAS PASSED TO THE RUSSIAN SECURITY SERVICES. I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE RUSSIANS DID WITH IT. THERE IS A REGULAR CHANNEL BETWEEN U.S. INTELLIGENCE AND RUSSIAN
INTELLIGENCE TO SHARE THIS INFORMATION. AND SO THEREFORE, I DON’T KNOW ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN SHARED TO THE RUSSIANS. BUT I THINK, AND PICKING UP ON WHAT PETER SAID, I THINK WHAT THE PUTIN REGIME WILL DO IS TO POINT THE FINGERS TO A FOREIGN HAND IN
THIS, AND TO BLAME OUTSIDERS FOR WHAT HAPPENED HERE. BUT CLEARLY, THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE HAD RELIABLE INTELLIGENCE EITHER FROM HUMAN SOURCES OR FROM TECHNICAL MEANS THAT GAVE THEM THE INSIGHT IN ADVANCE OF THIS ATTACK AND IT’S QUITE UNFORTUNATE AND REGRETFUL
