Mark Ball says Alex Murdaugh changed stories after family was killed | full video
Mark ball. Bal. Mr. Ball, will you tell the jury a little bit about yourself? Where you from? What do you do? I’m a lawyer in Hampton. I practice with the Parker Law Group now. Lived in Hampton for 20 plus years. I now live in Rum Gully here in Collin County. Have for about 8 years. Nine years. Practice. And a lawyer 33 years and where were you born and raised in Ballentine, SC, up above Columbia, about 20 miles. And when did you? Move down to this part of the state. I started with the law firm 34
years ago. I moved down. I was a law clerk at 1st and have never left and since 1988. Do you know the defendant, Alec Murdock? I do. How long have you known him? 34 years. And did you practice law together? We did not. 20 something did you become? Personal friends of his. Yes. I mean and and were your family friends with his family, yes. That our children grew up together, as did everybody in the firm. And and your wife, Lisa, would she become good friends with Maggie? Yes, Sir. OK. Only. You remember the evening of
June the 7th? I do very well, 2021. What? How did you learn about the tragic murders of Maggie and Paul? It was about 10:30
Gullian. That’s moselle. And why did you go over there to find out what was going on? To you know, see what? What would I mean we’re out in the middle of? You know nowhere. And you know somebody calls you and says your law partners, you know, wife and child have been shot. You go, I mean, and who did you go with? I went with my wife, Lisa. And when you got there, who, who was on the scene? Do you recall? Yeah, I came in by the cabin, but what’s referred to as the cabin side of
it? And there was a. Ambulance was pulled up next to the what I would call the hangar building. It was pulled up there and then Barry Mccroy’s vehicle. He drives a SUV of some type and then there was a police car. Pulled off to the right hand side probably 50 yards before you get to them and I pulled in right behind them on the left hand or the right hand side of the the driveway coming in and then walked over. Who Barry McCoy is. Barry Mccroy is the chief of the Fire and Rescue here in
Colleton County. So when you arrived, I think it’s a very McCoy was present, he was there, he was standing there speaking with a deputy, and there were two EMT’s paramedics standing over near their their. Ambulance or. And when? When you pulled into the, I guess the the lower driveway by the cabin. Had any blood, roadblocks or barriers been put up to stop cars from coming in there? I got there about. 10501052 something like that. Did did you have a conversation with any law enforcement officers about the need to to block the entrance? Eventually I was
talking to Barry about. I had found out just before I got there. Somebody had called me and they. Work with. Sort of the maintenance side of of. Fire and Rescue. And they had heard come across the radio that there were two dead, so I suspected that Paul and Maggie had had passed away. They. So when I got there, I was talking to Barry and asking him some questions. I could see Randy kind of through the alleyway between the dog kennel and the the. Sort of wing shed that comes off of the the hanger. And then
Buddy Hill, the sheriff came over and then I spoke with him. And and did you talk about the need to block the entrance in into the mozelle property off Mozelle Rd. We did just briefly he he said I I need to get this blocked off and I don’t. I think he took a phone call or something and I walked back to tell my wife what was going on. And I saw another deputy coming in. So I walked out to the road, the head of the road there, and I said I think the sheriff wants this
blocked off. And then I walked back to where Barry Mccroy was and then did that entrance get blocked off? What happened? People just kept piling in. I mean, it just. I mean it was a. Just more and more people kept showing up. Roughly how many cars you think piled in? I don’t know, because shortly thereafter I walked around to the other side. But there were a good minute when I walked back over there. An hour and a half later, there were a good many cars over there. And when you say you walked around the other
side, I don’t think we need a diagram. But just tell the jury what you’re talking about. Where I was standing, dog pin would be to the left. The aircraft hangar with two wing sheds coming off of it would be directly in front of me. There’s a a skinning shed that would be to the far right and then directly across from the hangar shed. Probably 50 or 6075 yards would be another storage shed, equipment shed, and so I walked down. Almost to where the skin and shed was and then back around in front of the far
shed, the equipment shed. So you did not walk directly between the the shed and the kennels, you walked around the the the shed, correct? Before you walked around the the shed, where did you stand and observe what was happening with within the taped off area? I did, I mean. People were walking between the dog pen and the law enforcement and responders had walked between the two areas, the the wing shed and the dog kennel. And I could see where Paul was, but he was covered up, period. Covered him up. And what was the weather? It
was misty. Um, it hadn’t. It wasn’t really raining, but it was one of those kind of foggy days. That or nights that it’s more than just a fog get you get wet. And eventually it got where it was. It would drizzle off and on and later on it it it didn’t rain hard, but it just. It was intermittently sprinkled in that kind of floating heavy fall. Did did you make any observations about? Water coming off the roof of the. The kennel I did later on when I got around to that side. OK, what observations did
you make? Eventually the water was running off that that dog kennel is built with a small cantilever on the front of it and then a longer part off the back and water was dripping off of the the front of the shed where Paul was. Was water landing on Paul? It was. And could you see where the water would then accumulate after landing, though? It would drain off. There’s a cement apron right there in the front of that feed room, and it was, there was water there. There was water in the gravel to some degree. Did
the grass was wet? I mean, you could it. It wasn’t raining so hard that. You know, you you couldn’t just stand there without an umbrella, but it was drizzling enough that you were getting wet. And the the fact that you observed water dripping off the the roof on the Paul’s body did that did that concern you it did it did well one I. Didn’t think that, you know, it’s a crime scene. You don’t want just water dripping all over the place. But more importantly, I thought it was pretty disrespectful. I mean, Paul was a good
young man and and I. Like, frankly, it just ****** me off. I understand. Did you have a conversation with anyone about trying to prevent that? I don’t think I did about that aspect of it. But it was. I just thought that. They they should have done put a tarp or something. I mean just out of respect. They eventually did with Maggie, put up what I would call a tailgate intent very similar to the media tents that are out front, those little lightweight, and they put that over Maggie, right. To my knowledge, they never did over
Paul, at least while I was there. When when you walked around the the shed? To get on the other side, who was on the other side? Well, I could see through the alleyway between the dog kennels and that wing shed coming off of if if you were standing in front of the aircraft hangar, it’d be the right hand side where Maggie was. I could see Randy over there and elic. Much more infrequently, but Randy was on the phone walking and I could see him and I think he and I got there about the same time.
He had come through the main gate. When you got up. What did you did you get up to to greet Alex? I did. When I walked around, Elic met me about halfway. Where that equipment shed is, Elliott came soon as he saw me coming up through there. He met me about halfway in front of that shed and. Just went to pieces. He he’s Alex 6465, whatever he is, and I’m 59. He pretty well smothers you when he hugs you. And he was what was his demeanor? He was devastated. I mean, he was crying. He was.
I mean, just. Just beside himself. And I told him we would get through it. Did. Go ahead, yeah, eventually did sled arrived on the scene. He did. But while Elite was kind of. You know, I’m trying to console him and pat him on the back and you know, he said, look at what they did, look at what they did. To them. And just right off the bat. So during that initial encounter with Aleki he referred to, they look what they did. Is that correct? Which I. Didn’t really think about it the time until I was
taking my wife home. I just thought it was an odd comment. The sled Rob, sometime later they did. Do you remember about how long after your initial arrival sled going, I think they got, they came kind of in you know, because I’m sure they were coming from various locations, but they were there probably within an hour and hour and a half of. Maybe in there. And. By the time SLED arrived, were there other members from your law firm and family members on the out on the property where you were standing there? There were. By that,
by the time sled got there, pretty much all the lawyers in the firm, with the exception of maybe two or three, one of them had small children and one got forgotten, and pretty much everybody that was a lawyer was there. Did and family members, all of all of Ellie’s family was there. Where were you directed to to leave the area of when sled started processing the crime scene. Eventually we were the coroner came over, Rich Harvey came over and said sled was there. They were ready to start processing this, the scene we he said y’all
need to you know go over to the house or. And I said, Are you sure about that? And he said, yeah. I said, Are you sure we. It’s OK for us to go to the house? And he walked back over and asked somebody and came back and said, yeah. And I said, did you have any concerns going to the house? I did. What were your concerns? Twofold, 1. You know, this is a pretty big farm and I don’t know who’s over there. Two people have been. Gunned down and you know it’s is it safe? You
know so safety is 1 concern and the other is, is that part of? What went on here? And so, as you know, is it where’s the crime scene start and stop? And when you got to the house, did it appear that that the House had been searched and cleared in any form or fashion? I didn’t see any signs of that, but I don’t. I’m not a criminologist. I’m not a prosecutor, I’m not a defense lawyer. But, I mean, it looked like just a regular house. But before you go to the house. Did you have any
conversations with law enforcement about? You know, your knowledge of Paul receiving threats. You know, I had asked or I when I was standing. Where I had driven up, Buddy Hill had come over there and he asked me if I knew because I know Sheriff Hill. And he asked if I had any idea of who might want to do this. And I said not really. And he said, do you know if any threats? And I said, you know, I know Paul had gotten since the vote wreck that he had gotten several, you know, threats and just.
People cranking off from all over the place, not necessarily local, but from everywhere. And I would hear it from, you know, Elec from time to time and different, just different stuff. And so I told him that. When you had that conversation with Sheriff Hill, had you spoken to Alec? I had not at that point. I hadn’t gotten over to him. When you had that conversation with Sheriff Hill, had you listened to the 911 call? That that thought of threats, was that an independent thought of yours? Well, it was response to a question from Sheriff Hill.
And and your thought process was about the boating accident that was the only? Threat that I I knew of that Paul had ever encountered. And when? Do you remember who went to the house? When you went into the Moselle residents, who was with you? I mean, I probably can’t name them all. I’ll probably leave somebody off. But it was myself. Ronnie Crosby, LeEco, Austin Crosby, Neal Alger, Randy Murdock, elic. Had Buster gotten there yet? Buster had gotten there, I believe, but I’m not sure. He and Brooklyn I I remember when they came up, but I
can’t tell you whether it was over before we left over there. It seems to me that they drove up at the House, but I can’t tell you for sure. There was Corey Fleming and Chris Wilson showed up. Lynn John Marvin. Just a host of people. Greg Alexander, chief of Police and the MC is a friend of theirs, showed up. There were lot of people, lot of people. What did you observe? The condition of the house? When we came in the door we obviously went to the dam and we’re standing around the den in the kitchen
in that house are connected and there were pots on the stove. So leak opened myself and think Austin got the pots. I think I set something in the sink and they stuck some of the refrigerator. But when you entered the the House it looked like there was food out that had been prepared for dinner. There was food on the stove, yeah. I don’t recall seeing any plates, but somebody else going to pick them up, I wouldn’t, but we’re folks cleaning up. And what time of day was this? It was probably 130 or two in the
morning. Do you remember what time you left that the Moselle residence on that night, early morning? Three or four? I left when Alec was leaving. When when did you go back to the property? I had a deposition the next morning and I ended up having to take it and then I got out there about. 11 I guess. And was Alec there when you got, when you got there? I went over to the dog pen over that way. I had gotten a call that morning about 8:00 o’clock from Randy, 8:00 or 8:15. And John had gone
over there trying to clean up and couldn’t, just couldn’t do it, I mean, emotionally. And Randy had asked me if I could see about finding somebody to come clean it up or did I know anybody? And I called the coroner’s office to find out. If they had people that did that type of work or knew of people that did that type of work and ultimately the the coroner called me back and gave me the names of two companies and. I gave those to to Lee and he started trying to run them down. Inadvertently skipped over
something on my outline when when you were at the house before you left. So you left about 3:30 in the morning or so. Were you there when SLED agents came up and took custody of Alex clothes that he was wearing? They knocked on the door. Somebody answered the door for some reason. I got up and walked over there and they said they needed his clothes and I think swab his hands. I walked back over. Elite had been sitting next to me on the couch. There’s two couches in the den that sort of face each other,
and then two chairs that are headed towards the kitchen. He was sitting on the far couch and I walked back over and I said, Ellie, they need your clothes. Can you step back here with these folks? And it was a male and a female. Do any further, let me ask where your clothes wet or dry when you’re sitting on the couch. They were pretty. Well, they were pretty wet. They weren’t soaked, but they were. Uncomfortably damp. And and do you recall whether Alex clothes were damp as well? I would assume they are. I didn’t reach
over and and did you see how the clothes were? I guess collected where they put it on a hanger wrapped up carefully or what happened? The mail went in to what? Alex bedroom. At least I’m assuming that’s Alex bedroom. And he came back out and then I saw Alec just kind of the female agent or officer was holding the bag and hell it dropped them in. They were just one bag, multiple bags. I thought it was one, but I couldn’t tell you whether it was one or two or three. Went down. I’m jumping back to
where we were on the morning of June the 8th. After you got out of your deposition, did you go to the property? I did. And you went down to the kennels? I did. I drove over there. Had the crime scene been released? It had been released. And because I asked Randy that morning, he said, yeah, they’ve released it when John was down there. And what’d you do? I just wandered around. There was a sled agent there, I think at some point. Duffy, Stone and Sean. His deputy, Thornton, was there and I think one of their
investigators, they were over inside the hangar and there was a sled agent. At least I’m presuming he was a sled agent and I don’t know who he was. It wasn’t any of the ones that were. Worked in the case that I came to find out there, working the case later on that I can remember. And I looked, looked around at different things. Did you look in the feed room? I did. What did you see in the feed room? Well, by that time I think Ronnie had either come up or was over there. Ronnie Crosby and
I think Lee Cope was there as well, but I’m not sure about that, I’m pretty sure. And I was looking in the feed room and you could see, you know, obviously there was still. It’s still a pretty raw scene and there were were. There still remains appalled in the feed room that not been collected. First. I didn’t see it. I saw. Shot, you know, on the floor, steel shot on the floor #2 steel shot. You mean pellets from a like? Birdshot. Except it was number 2 steel. And where? And you saw that in the fever.
It was all over everything. It was on the floor, it was on the shelves, it was various places. And then I got to looking around and there was a you could see where a piece of buckshot had gone through and you could see where it knocked out, you know, or shot through twice where the the window was or is to have gone through that. There was some plastic crates or something and you could see where one of the shot had gone through and had embedded in the the window frame right there, the molding, and then
there was a piece of buckshot laying on them. The ledge of them went still. Did what did you do when you observed the the shots? I walked back out and asked what I thought was the agent. And what was agent? We said we’ve got all we need. And so I went back over there and looked around and then. Looking around, down on the around the floor and all that, it just. There was a piece of. Paul Skull, about size of a baseball, laying there. Did that upset you? It did very much. I mean, it just
really infuriated me and I don’t know who I was supposed to be mad at, but it just infuriated me that. This young man had been murdered and there was still his remains there. And there was a large blood spot tissue out right off of the apron of that. Area right outside the feed room that was there and. Kind of like walking across the grave, he just. It’s one of those things you just don’t do. Right. After you spent time down at the. Kennel area what did you do next? I ended up going back to the
house. And. I remember Terry Brandstatter, Maggie’s daddy was there and several other people and I spoke to them and went in the house and. Eventually. Towards where the gun room was that afternoon, did slight agents come up to search the house while you were present? They did. I think the jury seen a video of it. We don’t need to play it, but were you present? And the gun room? Probably 2:30 or three o’clock something like that. They showed up. And I had had a discussion with that same agent. And I’m, I’m assuming it’s a sled
agent. It could have been a sheriff’s deputy, but I’m I made the assumption that it was a sled agent over at the the kennels and the hangar about. I asked if they’d figured out what kind of gun it was. And at that time I, you know. Didn’t I assumed it was a 223 based on the night before. Barry Mccroy had said that it was. He thought it was some type of assault rifle and I just. Immediately kind of went there and that agent had said that it was a 33 something. And I said a 300
blackout and he said, yeah, and I said. Well, there’s one over there in the the gun rack. And he said no there’s not. And apparently sled had been there sometime that morning or whatever. He said they already checked there’s not one over there. And I said yes there is. And so later on when they got there they there was one there and you located it for sleep. The the night. Early morning hours two or three o’clock before you left, had had you seen the gun room? Other guns on the pool table and whatnot. I walked
in there, the the door was shut, I think. I think the door was shut between it and the the sort of a transition hall you go through there and then there was a bathroom and then where the freezers were and then it exits out onto the porch and then straight ahead would be. I guess in the original House plans would have been a garage, but it was kind of a den game room that Ellie had turned into recreation slash gun room. And large room and I walked in there and there were three shotguns on the
table, pool table and some other stuff some shells and stuff and and when you went back the next day the 8th daylight hours early afternoon we’re. It looked like things have been put up. They had been put up, there were no guns on the table, there were no shells, no nothing there. And so I asked what happened to that and I was told that the. Made and put them up. And so I went and asked her, was it Blanca? And yeah, I went to Blanc and she said yeah, I was told to clean up the
room and so I put them up and put them in the rack. And. And did you point out to the flood agents, the guns that were on the table that you thought you’d seen the night before? I didn’t point out the guns. I told them that there had been guns there. When you own the property on the. I guess the. Morning on the 8th at some point in time did. Did. You observe an employee that had been working on the property for Alec individual by the name of CB Rd. I did. And did you take
pictures of his vehicle? For some reason I took pictures of a vehicle. I didn’t know whose vehicle it was. There was a vehicle that had pulled up underneath of the. Again, if you were standing in front of the the hangar where the the big door is would have been to the right and there was. A truck that had pulled up in there and didn’t have a license tag on it, and when I walked by it, there was a jug of Clorox and. I can’t remember what else was in there, but it was a jug of
Clorox and I just. Thought that was odd. So I was. A Clorox was in the bed of the truck and I took a couple of pictures of it and turned them over to slip. And why? Why did you take pictures? Just looked odd. You know, two people had gotten killed and you know, there’s. Clorox or hell? There’s been. I won’t make a statement. Did you see any coolers on the property down there? Cooler when I walked around the bottom. Part near the between the skin and shed and the hanger and the other shed. There was
a open cooler there or. Looked like a Yeti style cooler and I I can’t tell you whether it’s a Yeti or not, but it was one of those thicker coolers and there was probably a dozen beer cans around it that night. And the next day when I walked by it was still there. OK, I just thought it. With all the people and the hoopla that had gone on that. It didn’t didn’t look very good, did you? Was that the only thing that stood out about the cooler that the beer cans around the beer cans? It
looked like somebody had unloaded a boat or something and just kind of thrown them out of the boat and. Forgot about him and left. Did. What kind of law do you practice? Civil. Plaintiffs. Defense, mostly. Plaintiffs. Occasionally I’ll defend. You know, small business or a farmer or something like that, but for the most part it’s it’s. During the. Course of your practice, have you had experience with getting cell phone records so, you know parties to find out information? I have. It’s pretty regular now. I mean just about every defense lawyer asked and every plane’s lawyer
asked because so many people are texting and talking on the phone when they rear end somebody or crash into somebody or. Whatever. And you want to know if you ask them where you on the phone and they say no and you know it shows up on on the bill then. They probably on the phone and as you know, part of your, I guess, concern about Maggie and Paul and Alex did, did you pull his cell phone records? I was asked to pull them and yeah, we provided them to both SLED and to your office, I
believe. For Alex’s cell phone records. And if, if, if you’re. Trying to get information from an opposing party or something about cell phone records or the records more reliable than the actual handheld phone device in your experience? I. Did you hear the objection? The Lord, then you know you don’t respond until the court rules. Response to the objection. There’s been testimony about deleted call logs, Your honor, and this addresses that issue. Anything further? Objections overruled. I I don’t know that aspect of it that’s a technical I get the records because they’re more accessible than getting
the download and going through the there. There are cases that you may want to get a download but the the run-of-the-mill cases with truck racks and stuff the the records of the. The cell phone call records tend to answer the question that I’m asking. You’ve known Alec for 30 plus years. You recognize his voice and I think at one point in time where you asked to identify his voice on a video of down to the kennel and did you do so and you determined it was Alex voice, Maggie and Paul and you told that to
slip. Have have you? Listen to a tape that’s been played in this courtroom about. Whether Alex said I did them so bad or they did them so bad. 401402 and yeah, Skype for this witnesses now. Objection overruled. I was sent a snippet. And I asked the question. What it was and hang on, I’m not getting your response, so let’s. You know, we like to play the snippet from a state’s exhibit 153. For this what’s your witness? Thank you. And your Honor, I would, I would object, I believe that this witness was not present for this
conversation. And again the object under 401 and 402 and relevance to his commentary on that particular exhibit. Council overruled? And said we’re talking the base is still there so bad, it’s so bad. Sounds like they to me, right? I I played the snippet multiple times and and it’s consistent with what he told you that the night of the murders. You remember in. I think February 2019 that Paul Murdock was involved in the boating accident. And you’re aware that he was criminally charged? And and then Alec. I believe Buster was civilly sued, yes. And and did
you work on the case formally, not formally, no. We were. I was about to get in after the murders, along with several other partners. Leading up to the murders, did did you have conversations with Alec about civil case in the criminal case? The civil case to begin with. And then when the charges came out, I talked with the Anne Randolph. What? What was Alex? Or if you know, what do you expressed to you? His priority between the two matters was obviously the criminal matter was much more pressing for him and. And in your conversations with
him, did you you gain understanding of his? Concern about the civil case. Yeah, somewhat, but it. How concerning was the civil case? I mean obviously anytime you get sued you’ve got to be concerned about it and you know it was the whole boating accident is a is a whole was very negative towards him, towards Paul and the entire family. For his entire family. And so, you know, it was obviously a. It wasn’t a nothing, but at the same time. I read the complaint, several partners in my lawyers in my firm read the complaint, and at
the time that he was sued the the the causes of action against Elic. Were drafted probably to try to get as much insurance coverage as as they could, which is what you do as a plaintiffs lawyer. You you’re looking for coverage. It doesn’t. You don’t want to make allegations that get you out of coverage and it was very vanilla against him and that the allegations against Alec were that I I sort of referred to him and others did as well as sort of bad parenting. You had a adult child that. The allegation was that you
allowed him to go out and drink. And when you’re 18, you pretty much get to do what you want and you’ve reached your majority. And so I I didn’t really. I thought it was very defensible as to that. Those causes of action at that time or that cause of action? And I think he did too. But I don’t know what he thought. Did it? At some point in time, Alec. Was he forced to resign from the firm he was? 3rd. What day was September the 3rd? And and and after that did you have an opportunity
to look in his office? He resigned on the third. Then there was the incident on the 4th and I left the scene over there on so old Salkehatchie and went by the office and I’d also been in his office on Friday after he resigned. It it when you’re in his office, did you find any paperwork that looked like he had been working on for the boating catch? Not until the 5th. OK, what paperwork did you find on the 5th? The 5th I went in and started really because. We have an obligation of those clients that
he was representing and I didn’t want files just laying around. This was Labor Day weekend. All this hoopla on emotion of you know, the the murders, the the issues with ELEC leaving the firm and and then that Saturday and so that Sunday I went in to the office and went to his office and started going through to make sure that any client files were put over in. Stack, you know, over there. And as I was going through I I found checks that he had deposited with his telephone that were some of the the funds that
sort of started all this mess with the the Ferris case they were laying. One was on his top of his desk, one was in a drawer. I pulled out one of the drawers and there was a tablet, a legal tablet that had numbers. Sitting down on it as far as debts and assets and you know just kind of a scribblings of kind of what what you owe and what you’ve you’ve got. Do that, I mean would it be something that you would normally see on a net worth statement? It would be the same information when
when I think of a net worth statement, I think of the form that the bank sends you. But yeah it it it obviously. It was listed and what he had and what he owed. Is it something the type of format you’ve seen in civil litigation where defendants required to produce network not in the same form but the same information? I skipped a nut, another topping. After. Maggie and Paul’s death did. Did you collect her jewelry? I did. I got a call on the Wednesday, I believe after the murders on Monday from the corner. His wife
and my wife had worked as surgical nurses at Hampton Hospital together and then my wife ended up being the supervisor over that. Area. And then so I I knew them very well. And I’ve known rich for 30 years. He called and said that Lori had cleaned up the jewelry and, you know, whatever, elic wanted it. And I said, well, I’ll come get it. And so I met him, Ronnie Crosby, and I came over to his office and picked it up, signed for it, and I carried it back to the House. And within the jewelry, do
you remember the wedding ring and wedding bands and other rings? I didn’t. There was the thing that sticks out to me was she had a diamond bracelet on and it was in pieces. And he said he tried to find all the pieces but there were still some missing. But I wasn’t paying attention so much to it just didn’t. Didn’t feel right looking him snooping around in somebody else’s stuff. Knowing Alec for 30 years, do you? You develop an assessment of his relationship with his family, Maggie, Paul and Buster. Well, I’ll tell you this. The person
I thought I knew. Loved his family or appeared to love his family very much. He’d take their calls, he’d do all of those things after, you know, September the 3rd. I’m not sure I know that person and so. But he always seemed to be devoted to everything there, ball games there. He would aggravate the hell out of me when you’d be in a deposition and they would call and he’d answer it and you know, you’d be in a meeting or whatever. And he always took their calls, whereas. My wife and my children never called me
unless it was a true emergency and elic took their calls. Whether it was they needed, you know, a gallon of milk or, you know, they had something important to tell him. I mean, he always took their calls. And and did you see them together frequently? I did. They went places. You’d see pictures of them. I think Maggie was a pretty prolific. Facebook, text, whatever. I’m not on any social media, but my daughter or my wife would show me pictures of where they had been, or ball games, different things like that. They I I never saw
anything that indicated to me that there was any. Thing out of the way with any other relationships. Including the. The drug stuff I had, no. Yeah. Let me ask you, were you aware that he had an opioid addiction and any of the any of the partners aware that he had knowledge? I mean that was not a. Subject Matter that ever came up. I mean, it was. And. You know, Paul, I think has been sort of demonized by this whole. Affair, and that’s not fair. I mean, Paul, it’s like a lot of young people I know
you know, they. Kind of trying to find where the fence is. Sometimes they they get. You know, going a little fast and, you know, blow through some things. But Paul was a good kid. He was always polite to me. I never had any. I never had one. Single, solitary. Issue with him at all. And I knew he had done some things you know the most kids can you know, or mischievous do and and on at least one occasion I went to LA and told him that I thought Paul needed to be throttled back a little
bit and I saw some videos of him driving fast and. I don’t know what Alec did, but that was. Our firm was very much of a. Of the family, I mean if you were a member of our firm and it didn’t matter whether you were a lawyer or. One of our folks, I mean our our our staff is family as well and they have a problem. We all have a problem and so it. We look out for each other, and we did. Unfortunately, Alec betrayed that. When he stole the money and. But you know the
outward things that I saw of Elick with his kids. And and his wife. Or just that. I mean, they were what I observed, not nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors, but sure they were. They seemed to enjoy each other’s company. Thank you course and don’t. And no further questions. Mr. Waters, please support. Mr. Waters, could I steal one of your waters there? Absolutely. There you go. He was pretty good at hiding who he really was, wasn’t he? Obviously. Unity for 34 years. You know him for 34 or I have known him for 34
years and are pretty good friends. Interactive. Many times a week. We had his son, Buster and my daughter were in school all the way from kindergarten on, and I would see him at work some, you know, early on. He didn’t work for us immediately when he came out of law school. He worked for Jim Moss and Moss and **** and then he came to us about five or six years after that. But you shared a business with him. For how long? Probably 20. Years. He was your partner. He was a partner. He trusted him. You
have to. And I did. And outwardly to your appearance, he was a good lawyer, he was a partner to you. He was someone you could trust and rely on. Wasn’t. I’m sorry I didn’t hear the outwardly from what you observed, he was a good partner. He was a good lawyer. He was someone in part of your business, somebody but you could trust and rely on. Is that true? And outwardly you thought that he had a good relationship with his family. Is that correct? That’s correct. But you have just testified that you didn’t really know this
man, did you? Obviously I did not, I mean. Had had we known the things he was doing, we would have been law partners. You were asked about the kennel video, yes Sir. And you’ve had a chance to review that kennel video couple of times and you and I have talked quite a few times. Is that correct? You can see the kennel video until probably a month or two ago. And as you’ve reviewed it here recently, is that correct? Several times. Any doubt in your mind that Alec Murdoch, Maggie and Paul were on that kennel video
at 8:44 PM on June 7th, 20219? No doubt in your mind, no doubt. Do I need to play it for you again, or no doubt in your mind? Well, let’s talk about that just a little bit and we’ll talk more in some detail. But I wanna go ahead and cover this. You saw Alec the night of the murders. I did. And you knew Maggie very well. You knew Paul very well. I did. And. You went to the scene where Alec was, is that right? I did. And did you even ride with Alec or take Alec
back over to the house? I’m pretty sure he rode back over to the house. He and I think he and Randy because their vehicles were impounded over there and did you eventually as things. Started to move forward, sit down on the couch with him back at the house. I did fix yourself a liquor drink, probably a heavy one. And did you talk to Alec about what he did that night? I don’t know whether it was. I know. On the couch we talked. But I I talked to him several times, including. Before. The the masses got
there is to trying to figure out. Do you know anything? Do you know have any idea who did this? Because you were very concerned. You want to get to the bottom of this, right? Well for a lot of reasons, for a lot of reasons for for the family for what happened to Maggie and Paul, for the law firm, for all the people involved. All of it. It’s safety of, you know, if it was something to do with him and the law practice. We didn’t want somebody to show back up at the front door and harm
our our folks. We didn’t want them to harm any of the other lawyers, families if if it was some. The person that was deranged, we just didn’t know. I mean, it just this isn’t an ordinary occurrence in your your practice alone. Your thought you were his buddy. Been partners for 34 years. Y’all are sitting on the couch. Is that right? Like family. And you start talking to him as he responded to your questions appropriately. He was answering the correct subject matter. He was he was very upset, obviously. I mean he was he was answering your
questions. He wasn’t unable to make sentences and and did you talk to him about what he did that night and did he deny ever going down to those kennels to his buddy and law partner 34 years he said that he. 8 dinner lay down on the couch, took a nap and then left to check on him. And now you know that’s not true from seeing the kennel video, right? And that wasn’t the only time he told you that, is it? No. At least three times. At least three times. And this would be over the subsequent
days, subsequent conversations that you had with him. And he was always clear that he never went down to those kennels after, after they ate dinner. It was the same version of it, but it wasn’t always just me, OK, and we’ll talk about that. What who else was present at some of those conversations? There were other law partners and I I can’t tell you exactly who all was there, but I mean, I know on that Thursday following this, there was, I heard him say it then and there were other law partners there were their family there.
I don’t know whether they were in the room at the time or not, I just know there were. Law partners there. Was Jim Griffin there? I can’t speak as to what he was present on the property, but I don’t know whether he was there and Alec tell the same version of events that he never went down to those kennels. Yeah, he did. But I don’t know whether Mr. Griffin was there. We were there before Mr. Griffin was there. Dead. And his conversations with you that she ever changed his story about who he checked first at
the scene, supposedly. I have heard it both ways and and I I don’t know whether it’s just a. I don’t know whether it’s just because of the the trauma of the situation, but one time it was the first time I remember he checked Maggie 1st and then went to Paul and then I heard him. Say at one point that it was Paul and then it was Maggie. It didn’t really matter to me. It wasn’t something I really was picking up on because it was horrendous either way. I mean, I can’t imagine seeing my wife dead
and my son dead in such a brutal manner, so I I I never put any. Real stock in that. But it it it did. It oscillated. It did oscillate from what he was saying from from the first time I heard it, but the story changed. Well, yeah, as to which was which. Over the days following this event. This law firm, as you said, was like a like a family, right? Was. You thought you were very close, this man, just like you, you feel close to your other law partners and their families and the staff and
everybody else. It wasn’t just the lawyers that felt that way. It was. I mean, the paralegals, paralegals were there. The law firm shut down. They were also on. We had to go on a heightened alert. I contacted sled about. What we should be doing, because there was a statement that came out about there was no. That they didn’t know of any danger to the public and I. We’re left with trying to make sure that the 60 or 75 people that work with us are all safe and they go home to their families and they sled
responded. I called the Lieutenant over here and he. Called me back that evening and. You know was very helpful as far as trying to tell us you know he said I I don’t know of any specific threats but you know here’s some precautions and I think what you are doing is the right thing and they were they were helpful and but there was still that under undertow of. You know who did this and are they going to and it just. People were just on edge all the time. And you’re not a criminal lawyer or prosecutor.
I think you said I’m not, but still a lawyer. And so you and your partners, including his brother Randy, were very focused on trying to figure out what happened here. What is wrong here, correct. What happened on June 7th, 2021, right? Very focused on that where you know we were. I mean, it was taking a lot of time off, but he was not, was he? You said that before having that, I have said that. But I don’t know, Mr. Walters, how I would respond if I’d lost. And I I’ve told you the same thing. I
don’t know how you’re supposed to to react when you lose your wife and your child in such a brutal manner. But no, to answer your question, I didn’t see him on the phone like I was trying to call clients. And did you hear anything? Did you see anything? Those kinds of things. So, I mean the answer is. No, I didn’t see him doing that. I wasn’t around him all the time. But no, I did not. And you, you’ve already testified that you and other law partners and family and staff were very concerned about potential threats
because of what happened on June 7th. Is that right? And you thought it odd, though, that he was not concerned about any threats, even to Buster, correct. Well, I wouldn’t put it that way the night that this happened. I asked Elite where Buster was, and he said we’ve gotten a hold of him. Brooklyn’s bringing him. And I said, Are you sure he’s all right? And he said, yeah, he’s riding with Brooklyn. And that’s, I said, you think he needs? Any protection or something along those lines? I don’t know that it was exactly those words. And
he said he’ll be, he’ll be here in a little while, he’ll be fine. But he was so addled. I didn’t. I didn’t hang anything on anything Ellic was saying. But after that, in the days that followed, you continue to interact with them. He never asked for any protection or expressed any concern about protection for Buster, did he not? To me he did not. You know, the only thing I can tell you is 4th of July he came. To Ronnie’s Ronnie Crosby’s house and he had a pistol in his bag, which was to me, was unusual.
And of course in classic. Alec, Buster and Paul style ended up leaving the bag there when they left. This. This law firm has been in existence all law. 191019 was. And we’re no longer. I’m sorry, we’re no longer. We’re no was. Until he came along right until all this happened right. Until September of. 2021 September 2021. And. Was a relative of Alex’s great grandfather was part of that initial law firm, is that right? His great grandfather was the beginning of that law firm. And was he also the solicitor for the 14th Circuit for this area
of the state. He was from I believe 1920 until 1940 when he was killed in a train accident and then did the defendants. Grandfather becomes solicitor, Buster still chief prosecutor for this area. Buster took over in 1940 and was the solicitor until 1946, and then Randolph was appointed by the governor and then was until. He was 72 and his father became solicitors. What you said is Randolph until about when? Randolph was 82 when he passed away, so 10 years ago, maybe around there, and Buster became. Buster left the Solicitor office in 86 when he became
72. At the end of 86, beginning of 87, I think Randolph took over and Buster became the assistant solicitor. All right. And how long was Randolph solicitor? Until about 10 years ago. And we’re still an assistant. When he passed, I believe, I believe he was still an assistant solicitor. Mr. Randolph was, and so was the defendant too, wasn’t he? He was in some form or fashion, he added. He had a badge. Did you ever see a badge that he had? I did. Where did he keep that badge that you saw? Corner of his dashboard, driving
around with it in the front of his dashboard a lot of times. This family is very, very powerful. Were they not very influential in this community? I mean they had a very good name. They had, you know, they were. They were known to help you with your problems. How important was that family legacy to the defendant? Very seemed to be very important. I think you’ve said that it was more important to him than anybody else that you observed. It seemed that way. I mean whenever there would be discussions of name changes or anything, he would
be very involved in that, much more involved in that than he would be in another business matters. And he even talked to you about wanting that, being the defendant, wanting to be solicitor as well at one time. You talked a little bit about the same. And. There were when when you arrived, there were other law partners there as well. Is that right? Not when I arrived. Randy was there. Randy was there. Other law partner showed up, showed up over the next hour and a half or so from Jasper County, from Beaufort Mall over. And there
were a lot of powerful attorneys at that scene as it was being processed, including the defendant. Is that right? Obviously Alec was there and the rest of us, and then I don’t. I don’t know of any other lawyers at the scene. Other than us, us being our our firm members, and was law enforcement always polite, polite and respectful during this entire process? Absolutely. And when they came to the house that day, the video where the Jeff Croft came in and searched for those guns, were they polite and respectful? They were very polite. They did. They
have a long conversation because they knew family was in the house about trying to do this as delicately as they can without upsetting everybody and doing some big search and running everybody out of the house and all that stuff. Lady, and I apologize. I can’t remember last night she offered to take off all of her identification for gone and all of that, and we told her that that wasn’t necessary. Chair. Move. OK. I can speak. OK, sure. Screwed up a little bit might help so you don’t have to lean forward. Yeah, they they. I mean,
Katie offered to really. You know. Be very behind the scenes, so to speak, and everybody I’ve not had. You know. The vast majority of them have been. Extremely polite and. Very, very responsive to. Anything that we ask. Because of all the family there and the and the tragedy that happened, they were very delicate and respectful of that when they came to the house that day. Is that correct? In looking back, they probably were too much, but they were. They were very. You said. That Alec would always ride in his suburban. With that badge up in
the front dashboard to your observation, right? I don’t know that he always did, but a lot of the time. He also carried, generally carried a pistol in the car too, didn’t he? I didn’t know that I I can’t testify that now I’ve heard that, but I. I didn’t know that. What was Alec like with the cell phone? He was on it all the time, wasn’t he? He was on the cell phone all the time he would. Constantly be using it, constantly responding to calls in the middle of conversations. Always had it with him to your
observation being his law partner for 30 some odd years. Is that correct? Issues of the cell phone. And would it have been unusual for him to go down to those kennels without his cell phone with him? You said that happened. I don’t know whether I’ve said it or not said it, but I would think it would be unusual for Ellie to go anywhere without his phone. What were his? What was he like as a Lord? What were his? Was he a very academic or? Type lawyer or was he where his skills elsewhere. Well, I mean
Alec was a very good lawyer. I mean he, he was a he got good results for his clients he got. You know he. Could look at the a set of facts and really do do well with them figuring out where the. Where to go with the the issues, where to push and where to to not push and and pull and he was. Very good. Tactically, you know, I’m, I wouldn’t say that I’m a great academic lawyer. I think I’m pretty good at figuring out where the seams are to, to figure out the solution. And. I
think Elic was much more like I am in that respect as as far as. Looking at facts and and talking with people elect elect never met anybody that he didn’t. He couldn’t talk to. He could talk to a fence post. Fence post. I think you’ve said that people were his trade. They were and he understood the emotion of the cases very well did he not? He did. And he could be very convincing with people as you’ve come to find out from what all that you’ve uncovered. Is that correct? Absolutely convinced us for since 2006 effortlessly.
Easily lied to you for years and you didn’t know. Didn’t know it, didn’t know it and didn’t catch it. In fact. You know if. It just. The way he was doing it was very, very cunning. Connie. Who is a reminder jury, who Jeannie. Second jury is has been a long trial but it reminded them who this is. She is, she is our in-house accountant, CFO, she’s the money person, but she goes beyond that. She did management stuff. She would be the person that at one time she was kind of managing the non lawyer staff, but
she could still reign in the lawyers as well. And. In the wake of all this. Financial stuff that came up on September 4th. She was one of the ones tasked with going through and figuring out the extent of what he had done. Is that correct? She and I worked a little, a lot and you worked on that as well, is that correct? The things that. It has come up and there was this issue that happened back in 2017 where we had. At the beginning of the year, the law firm depletes all the money and then
you have to start off the year. Well, money’s coming in and you may not have enough to cover your bills in January and February. So we do a a loan and generally the partners ones that wanted to participate would. Put money in and then they get paid back as soon as we got on the cash. Positive. In the New Year and there was an issue in 2017 where ELEC was paid. He didn’t put the money in, but the check was written to him by mistake. And it was. I’ve gone back and looked at it and
made sure, but his name and Randy’s name appeared. It one over the other and it was just a. Fat finger or just a a missed thing with the mouse and the check was generated to elic and then there was a second check generated one in March 1 in April. The one check was negotiated in May, I think the other check stayed on his desk and was negotiated the next October. Well what that did was that throughout our and this is in our operating account, it’s not it wouldn’t client money, so it. It through our operating
account, out of balance. And when we started looking at it then we realized that he wasn’t the one that was supposed to have gotten paid. We had a basically a pow wow. Our President, Danny Henderson went to him, talked to him about it, and Elec swore that it was just a mistake and he paid back the money with interest because Randy had been out of his money was solar money, correct? I don’t. I didn’t know that. But I mean, he paid it back. And I think there had been testimony that somehow that got swept under
the rug. It did not get swept under the rug at all. It it was investigated, but everything seemed to make sense because the check was written to him. He cashed a check that was written to him and well, I might know whether or not I had an extra 123,000 or whatever it was, or 21. Alec always seemed just sort of disheveled with his own funds. So it it made enough sense and it it there wasn’t enough there to to get in a brohan and, you know, terminate somebody or. Create more of a fuss than than
it was, but it wasn’t swept under the rug. Everything seemed to fall into place at the time. Now, obviously, had we known any of the other stuff at the time that we found out in September, then it would have been a different story. But bottom line is he got, he got discovered. Oops. It was a big mistake. He says he pays it back and people move on, right? And that was in 2018. That was in 2018. And we’re talking about the check written that was supposed to go to his brother that went to him instead.
And he was never one to loan money for those operating expenses generally. Is that right? I think he loaned once or twice, but it wasn’t regular and not around this time. I didn’t go back and look at that part of it. $1000 roughly something like that 21125 I was more concerned about how it happened to begin with it. Randy’s initials or RM and Alex initials in our system or RAM so. That was. And what he did was. Was he gets that check and instead of saying this isn’t 120 some odd $1000 for me, he actually
goes to staff a couple days later and says I lost that check, cut me another one, right? Yes Sir. And then he cashes that one, right? Eventually cashes. He cashes the second one. Yeah, pretty short order, correct? He cashes the the first one in October the next year. He cast on the other one for an extended period of time and then cashes that one. Right he did. Still the same money twice, right? Yes, Sir. What’s the word you used before cunning? Very cunning. And you mentioned that it wasn’t swept under the rug, but he he
said Ohh, it was a big mistake and and he pays the money back and then people move on even even though they because OK, it’s just Alec, that sort of thing. Correct. But there are other instances like that too, over the years, for example. Using private planes for personal use and billing that to the firm. Is that right? Or actually well, or explain some of that. But the biggest thing was the credit cards using he, he just wasn’t a very good rule follower at all. But there’s money, right? Well, yeah, I mean, anytime you’re in
a law firm or you’re working for somebody and you’ve got a card or a check that’s got their name on it then. You you owe them a responsibility to spend it properly. And it’s other people’s money, right? It’s other people’s money. And he would spend personal use on the credit cards. And you’ll have to talk to him about that, right? Yes, Sir. And that was going on repeatedly, correct, up until the end. Put tuition on firm credit card for one of his children. Correct. He did. Had to talk to him about that. Right. And he’d
pay it back and then people would move on, right. And that’s been going on for years. Had it knocked? It had. But there were other people that. Would but not like him, right? Not to that. Not like him, not to that degree. Now you talked a little bit about the boat case. But back in May of 2021. Jeannie came to you and told you about what Annette had discovered about them receiving the expense check in the first case but not the fee check, right, sometime in that time frame. Yes. And your initial concern was, and
you were concerned, you were concerned that he was going to try to hide assets because of the boat case. That was part of your concern and the firm was not going to participate in that. If that’s not what if that was what was going on? That’s correct, that he was either going to structure them or. Leave them in somebody else’s trust account until it had passed. I mean, we we weren’t going to. We weren’t going to fudge our books for that benefit. And you were aware that? The boat case, they were seeking a personal recovery
against Allen, correct? Yes, Sir. And that caused you concern because this firm was not going to participate in helping him hide assets because of the spoke case, correct? That was your concern he or anybody else or anybody else? And you had continued conversations with Jeannie over the next few weeks about this because she couldn’t get a straight answer as to what he had done with those fees, correct? Myself and Jeannie and at least two other partners. And Ronnie Crosby. And couldn’t get a straight answer, could you? But we weren’t getting a straight answer, so we
we continued. But we didn’t want to make it. A big deal if it wasn’t a big deal, but because we didn’t have the information, we couldn’t make a decision. And then on June 7th, 2021, Jeannie went in there. To demand that straight answer correct. Yes, Sir. I didn’t know that until June the 8th. But you knew it was coming to a head. And you? Yeah. I mean, Jeannie tenacious. I mean, she’s going to get to the answer. She’s not going to let go until. And it wouldn’t just be this. It would be. Anything but unlike
the other times, Alec didn’t have the money to pay it back and make it all go away, did he? This time? I didn’t know that. You know that now, don’t you? Well, yeah, obviously, every the whole world does. Maggie was your friend. Maggie, what’s your friend? She was all of her friends, yes. All is your friend. He was dear friends with my. Particularly my youngest daughter. He was a good kid. He was a good kid. I mean, he had his issues like everybody else. I mean, I I don’t know anybody’s raised children. I if they
say they’re perfect, then they need to write a book. But. I’m him. Don’t think any of us want to be judged about what we did when we were 18 or 19. I don’t want to be judged with but what I did or I really don’t be judged how I raised my children. But you know, they, you know, those are individual decisions but. You know, Paul was a good kid. He was always polite. He I could have picked up the phone and called Paul and said, hey, I need some help over here on my farm. That
kid would have come in a heartbeat. He was he was just a good kid. Now, did he do some devilish things? Absolutely. I hear about him and, you know, occasionally if I saw him, I’d say something to him about it. But he was he was a good kid. I mean, he. Great outdoorsman. He grew a garden. I mean Randolph, who they called handsome, I mean. Do anything in the world and any after the boat wreck the two of them. We’re almost glued together. And I mean it’s. It’s just a total waste of. A kid that
had. Had never found his potential yet, but what if I’m quite confident? And after this tragedy happened to the family that was this law firm. Everybody was focused solely on that. Coming to support one another and coming to support Alec Murdoch. Is that right? Absolutely. And the last thing on anyone’s mind at that time. Was those dad gum Ferris fees when this happened? Isn’t that right? And you’ve said that we actually. At least myself and one or two others said, well, we’ll have to put that on hold. Maybe it was a conscious, it wasn’t just
a we’re not going to subconsciously, but. We consciously said we’re we’re going. A man just lost his wife and child. There’s no way. We’re going to be cruel. We’ll get back to it later. And we did. Just got back to her later. Couple months later, right? Or or a month later, you’re advised that, oh, wait a minute, first, Wilson says he has those fees all along, right? That’s what I was told. Because in the wake of those murders, he had managed to borrow some money from Johnny Parker, right? I found that out later, and he
had managed to. Have Palmetto State Bank, through Russell feed give him $350,000 in undocumented funds, correct? I found that out later as well. After 4 you get an e-mail saying yeah. First of all, I got the fees and that kind of put the matter to bed at that point in time, right? That was in July, yes, right back again or at least you think. And just like before. People move on because you’re still dealing with the tragedy of this terrible set of murders. Correct, Luke? By July we were dealing with that and still this idea
of the boat rack. You know, and and what he was going through, I mean, you rally around with your family and your friends. You rallied around him, right? And that’s not to anyway. Throwing cold water on. Any of the claims of the the people in the boat wreck. But everybody deserves a defense. And you know, you defend your your friends and your family, but you do it morally and honestly. It’s what people think their friends do right? You hope they do. September 3rd. Or thereabouts. And that finds this Chris Wilson check and Alex Oppas, right?
September the second, I believe September 2nd. States 313. I can’t see that phone, sorry. Gentlemen, I think we’ll take a short recess at this time. Please go to the jury room. Please do not discuss the case. Please do not discuss your testimony. Yes, Sir. Disrespect the court. We have our next two witnesses. We have our next two witnesses. We wanted to make sure we were ready to go as soon as this witness comes down. So as you see me coming and going, I’m just ensuring the witnesses letting the front door and put somewhere. So I
apologize. There’s no disrespect to the court. How much more are you have for this witness? You think 20 minutes? You’re on minutes then. Then you don’t know. So we don’t know. OK, thank you. Be 10 minutes. Please be seated. Folks said they can’t hear you, so you need to talk. Yeah. You bring the jury. Jury is present, Sir. Sir, thank you. You may proceed. Please court, your honor. Yes, Sir. All right. I think that when we left off. I’m showing you states. What is that 313 I believe, and that’s 313. That’s the first check that
was found in the defendant’s office that he had locked everyone and told that he never received. This is the first one. One of them, the first one that we knew of. And then and we’re around September 2nd or something like that, and around that same time, Jeannie starts spreading or researching and y’all system forge and then finds all the fake forge checks. Is that right? She used the the query forge to see whether anything had been. Put into an annuity, any fees have been moved. Or or put under an annuity and a list came out
of, I don’t know, 10 or 12. Different cases and y’all call it the real forge and said, y’all have any of these clients and they said no, y’all for bank to Bank of America. They said no, we did, but in that list. Like the fourth or fifth one was a client that I was representing and the money was to be held in trust and when we pulled up the documents, supporting documents, it had a notation on it that it was a. Invested for three years, which I knew couldn’t be, so I went and called the
client. Client verified that he hadn’t authorized anything, hadn’t done anything, and immediately told him that. His funds would be put back in there and I walked back across the street to jeanie’s office and. Told him we had a big problem and that was Thomas Moore, correct? That was Tommy Moore. That was a highway patrolman had been injured, correct? Correct. And Alex stole his money. He did and they have been friends. So your knowledge. Acquaintances, friends, I’m not sure what their relationship, and I’m not going to go through in great detail because it’s already been done,
but generally you and Jeannie were probably the main drivers of the investigation into all of this theft and states 314 this spreadsheet. All of us were involved, but I was with Jeannie. Vast amount of time. I was with her. Vast amount of the time going through and auditing and checking to see. Alright, and. Ultimately you had to reach out and talk to a lot of these clients, clients about Murdoch’s right. I did. And you had to tell him what had happened? I did including. Two weeks ago or three weeks ago, another one? And you had
to tell them that Alec had lied to them, right? I did. And they said Alec lied to me. He never told me that, correct. Response, I’ll move. You had conversations with all those clients, the clients that you dealt with, right? I dealt with the majority of them, yes, I’m going to show you what’s been marked as. Exhibit 314, just real quick. Go through and just don’t have to do anything more, but just list the names of people that you had to deal with personally over what he had done. Well, I was involved with the the
one for Barrett bowler with with Ronnie. Right, let’s talk about Barrett for a second. That was one of his close friends, right? He was. And can you describe the money that he stole from Barrett? Barrett hit. Had a. Fire on a piece of property that he had and it burned down the house and. There were proceeds for cleaning up and then there were proceeds for. Various and sundry. Things that were associated as well as the structure. And. We started looking at it. Figured out that the $75,000 had been stolen. And then later on that there
was an additional. Amount that never went through there. How much was that additional amount? 279,000 according to this exhibit number. I would say that was one of his closest friends, one of his closest friends. That’s who he ended up getting mozelle from. And when he stole that $75,000 from bearable where Barrett was sick and needed that money to put his wife up in a hotel near the hospital, he was that, didn’t he? Cancer, yes. And needed that money and Alex stole it anyway, right? I assume he needed the money. Alright, keep going. Just again, the
next one down is Jacob, the state of Jacob Hershberger. And at first, but that’s one of them that you had to deal with. That’s one that I just dealt with two weeks ago and we’re still straightening it out. Straighten it out and and deal with the money because he took it, correct. We are now we’re in the process of it after talking with the clients and everybody else involved, right. All right, go on to the next one please. Mr. you want me to give the names or yeah just just Mr. Anderson I dealt with Deon
Martin and his family I dealt with let me let me slow down. So Christopher Anderson you said unless somebody you had to talk to yourself and you all had the firm had to pay money for what he did correct Dion Martin with somebody you talk to yourself. And horribly injured in an accident. He had a brain injury and had a brain injury. Yes, Sir. And you had to talk to him about the defendant lying to him with his brain injury. Correct. And his parents and his parents are taking his money, correct? Correct. All right, keep
going. A lease. Mallory. Mallory. And she had a relative who died? Correct? She did. Very sweet old lady. Have you met her? Well, Elise, that’s what I mean. She’s not. I’m sorry. The person that you dealt with, or the personal representative and then. Umm. The Shea. Very sweet, nice lady. The PR all. I haven’t had a single one of these clients that weren’t nice people. Very nice people. Super nice people. And he took advantage of each one of them and lied to them, correct. Yes. Alright, tell me some more now. The richer case. I wasn’t
involved in it. Johnny Bush. I dealt with him. I talked with J Jinx. Your knowledge. Johnny Bush considered himself a friend of Alex Murdoch. I don’t know whether they were friends, but they were good acquaintances. Johnny was a little bit different. He. Overcharged him on. Or gave him the impression that it was the $95,000 was for expenses and it was not. So he lied and told him that there were expenses that had to be paid in. Instead, Alec Murdoch stole that money from his good acquaintance Johnny Bush, correct? That’s correct. Keep going. J Jinx, he
I talked with J, but I didn’t deal with the. The painting back part of it. But all the firm still had to pay him back for the lies that were not told correct and for the theft, right? Keep going if you want the Christiani. Matter is still ongoing. And then? Randy Drawdy, that matters over Tommy Moore. I’ve dealt with him. His money’s back in trust. Where it’s supposed to be tomorrow is a highway patrolman that got injured in the line of duty, correct. He was lied to him and took his money, correct? Correct. This is
not all of them either. So that’s the ones for now. That’s the ones that are on that list. To spend a minute to evidence here, correct? Correct. But there’s a good many more than this. Are you Eric, and your conversations with the defendant that back? Round town and the recession that he had gotten into some land deals that had. Got him some financial issues. I think it was squeezing, yes. And then not long after that he had some big cases such as the Arthur Badger case and the Pinckney UPS case and the Plyler case in
which he got a large amount of fees from very large recoveries, correct. Pinckney was a tire case, OK. But yeah, he got very big fees, alright. And you thought that with all those fees that you knew who got because he’s your partner and you get to see the books, you’re the treasurer of the firm or have been for an extended period, is that correct, the Old Firm? Yes. And you thought that the money that he legitimately got from those cases had solved those problems because it was a lot, wasn’t it? I think along with everybody
else thought that he had. He was. Totally out of any debt. Trying to find out on top of the fees that he got, he also stole. 1,000,000 from those clients, correct. Yes, Sir. There wasn’t enough for him, was it? Clearly not. I’m almost done. Going back to that scene. That you went to? You didn’t see any blood on Alec Murdoch that night, did you? And when you went back the next day? You went back because y’all had attempted to call, y’all had called the coroner to get the names and he had given you some the
names of some companies that that their job is to come out and help clean up scenes like this, correct? That’s correct. And y’all had called them, but nobody called back and you just felt like you had to do something. So you went to the scene. Is that right? Well, we were trying to also see what what we could find out if there was anything that we could do to. Lend assistance. I mean, this was something that was, I mean everything stopped. Everything stopped. The whole world did. And being a friend like people would be and
just trying to do whatever you could correct. You know, we were, we’re lawyers. We, you know, we try to figure out what happened to things and you went in that feed room and observed the things that you saw. And you also ended up getting blood on your sleeves, correct? I did. I didn’t know that high correct shoulder areas and on my pants. I asked you a little bit about the defendant cell phone use. Was it like him to have very short phone calls or was he one to talk for a while? I mean, he, he
would cut you off with one phone call coming in on top of another. He’d call you about something and say, oh, I’ll call you back, click it off and you know, but he starts talking about something. Yeah, but I mean, it would, he would. It was regular. It was regular. They would typically talk for more than a minute, though. You said that correct most people a minute. It’s not. Not much of a conversation. There’s not much conversation just for a minute, is it? No. The night of the murders, did you see a golf cart up
at the Mozilla residence? I saw one in front of their house. In front of the house? Yeah, if you drove up the driveway, it was over to the left in front of the house. It was parked off to the left side of the house. Going back to September. And you’ll find out about the Ferris phase, and you’ll find out about fake forge and y’all have a meeting of partners without Alec there and without Randy there, correct? Well, first of all, on the second, which was Thursday when the stuff with forge came up and you started
looking down when I made the phone call to Tommy Moore. And we first thing Jeannie did was start grabbing our check. All we could see was our end of it. So if the check was written off of our. Trust account or our operating account, but these were mostly trust checks. If it was written off trust account, we could get a copy of our check. We didn’t know where it had gone from there and we could see the disbursement sheets and we could tell where they were deposited by looking at the back of the check, which
you don’t normally do. I mean it’s just not and when you started seeing. Commonality to it. And then the more thing was concrete. I mean, there was just no way. That money couldn’t have been written out because it was being held. He had an ongoing workers comp claim that. That was a. Statutory lien. You couldn’t, couldn’t give him the money. And the money is without rehashing the whole story for the jury again, y’all knew he had been stealing it, though. That’s when we found out and then I met. Didn’t know how much. In fact, you
found out a whole lot later, correct? We had about 6:00 at that time. I met with our president that night and Ronnie Crosby and set up a meeting for the next morning and. We met and then Randy was tied up and then came and at that point it was unanimous. And then Randy and Danny went and talked to him. And then when confronted with that and he was forced to resign. Is that correct or you’ll terminated? Well, he could either resign or be terminated, but it was 32nd decision. And what day was that? When that
happens? Friday, what day do you remember that would have been September the 3rd and immediately started end of all the things you have to do when you find out that a lawyer’s been stealing in your firm? Which has been absolute, total pure hell since then. So everything was coming home to roost. The storm was arriving again for Alec on September 3rd when y’all confronted him. Is that correct? Yes, Sir, it was over. And then on September 4th, what happened? What did you hear about I had? Head. Spoken to. Mr. Griffin, just to let him know
that we had terminated him. He already knew and about. 113012 o’clock whatever time it was, I was on a tractor and he called me and said you’re not going to believe what happened and I thought. My first response was don’t tell me that ******* killed himself and he said no, somebody shot him. And I just said I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that. Lot of people thought right away, Oh my gosh, the real killers are back. Correct. The chickens were home to roost again for Alec, and all of a sudden he’s a victim again,
correct? Thanks. Rejected. Overruled. I went to the scene. I went straight to the scene. But I didn’t. I didn’t believe it. You didn’t believe it because you have training as a lawyer, right? Whether it’s intuition, training, whatever, I just didn’t believe it. And what did you see at the scene that confirmed that this time I got it, didn’t work. Danny and Ronnie were there standing there and I said I don’t, I don’t buy it. And we walked up towards the car and I think I said it’s got run flat tires and the tires not flat
before we got to it, Ronnie said. It doesn’t even have a spare. And then when we got up to it, you could see it at 9:00 o’clock where somebody had. Stab the tire. And we. Start we hung around there and then when the slide showed up, I think it was actually David Owens showed up. Well, Ryan. Kelly showed up one of them and that’s when we told him we had fired him the day before. And. What had happened? We were. In consultation with with the lawyer we had to hire on Friday. To figure out what
to do and how to do it. And when this happened, we thought they needed to know. And you were told that Alex claimed at the scene that he was shot by some unknown assailant, correct. That’s that was the story. But you know this scene of been manufactured by like correct. When you arrived there, I didn’t know that. I just, I suspected it just didn’t look like. I mean, there’s a shiny Mercedes black car with no holes in it, a single shot. There’s the back hatch didn’t open. There’s no. No, nothing. I mean, it just doesn’t
look right. And just when accountabilities arriving again. The defendant manufacturers themselves being a victim, correct? That’s what it turned out to be. Thank you, Mr. Ball. Redirect. Briefly, your honor. Promise. Mr. Ball, to your knowledge. Has the law firm PMPED repaid all the money to the clients and that’s owed as well as insurance company have pitched in? To this point we still have we’re holding some money as of a week two weeks ago and. And one of the matters we’re still. We’re trying to get that money returned. We’re having to go through PR and the
the list of names that you you read off those folks. If they were entitled to the money now they’ve they’ve received it, is that right? The people on that list have, yes, and there’s plenty bunch more that have as well. And and the law firm. Is currently out a lot of money, is that correct? As a result of the law firm and the partners in the law firm, we’ve had to pony it out of our pocket. Pony up. Yes, Sir, along with my partners. And and when when Alec was. Resigned or terminated in September, he
had some cash flow coming into the firm that the firm was able to keep and use that to pay some of the claims. All of our funds doesn’t matter what high earn until it’s declared at the end of the year. It’s law firm money, I understand that. So law firm money earned off Alex cases that would the firm money when he left. We’re talking a couple of $1,000,000. First of all, all the cases are owned by the law firm. They’re not marks cases, they’re not Alex cases, they’re law firm cases, cases that Alec was working
on generated. Monies and and we internally decided how we were going, the formula that we were going to use because people had to complete those cases and we’ve allocated. Much, much more than ordinarily our expenses are taken out in a different way, but we allocated. A bunch of money to pay in those. Yes, understand. But the income from those cases? North of 2,000,000 perhaps, yes, Sir. And and your firm and Jeannie seconder and others have cooperated with SLED and the Attorney General’s office in their investigation of Alex’s misdeeds in relation to those client matters, have
they not? And as a result of them, you’re aware that Alex has. 90 Plus pending charges against him for financial, the stuff you just testified about, right? Yes, Sir. And you’ve been subpoenaed here today to testify in the murder case, correct. I’ve been subpoenaed since. This trial started and you know this is the murder case. Yes, Sir. Now immediately after. The martyr. Maggie and Paul and you talked about Alex demeanor. Did he come to work and was able to work on cases? He he came. He was out for a while. He, I think he went
to his in-laws and stayed. He didn’t. After the funeral, the funeral was either Friday or Saturday. I can’t remember then Randolph was. Randolph died on Thursday after this. And then Randolph was on Sunday. And. Alex sort of. He was staying between Randy and John Marvin and whoever else his mother’s house I think he went to his in laws I know he went down to to. Visit with his brother-in-law and sister-in-law and but no he was not. There was a period of time he wasn’t wasn’t doing it. He would might come by. And he would be
in his office generally looking at sympathy notes. And and from your observation, was he in any frame of mind to do any productive legal work the month of June, the month of July? We sat down and talked about it. As partners and not with Elec about what we were going to do because there’s deadlines and things that have to be done. And so we were going to try to figure out how we were going to do it late, kind of start stepping in on some of his cases and making sure everything was being done according
to what needed to be. And and I think you testified about how the firm. Partners in the firm, lawyers in the firms were reaching out and using your resources to try to find out, perhaps. Who played a role in killing Maggie and Paul? Absolutely. Were and. And. And. But were you careful not to go out and do the investigation yourself and just relay the information back to select? Weren’t trying to be privatized or any of that. We were just trying to see and and we were late. I relate numerous things to. The various officers, and
I would preface it by I don’t know whether this means anything, but you never know I mean. To your knowledge, was information being relayed through Alex attorneys to pass on this way? Well, I know I dealt with you on various things up until the the stealing. And to your knowledge, was Alex consenting and cooperating with sled in their investigation? As far as I know, yes. I mean I I I wouldn’t. With him during those interviews or anything else. But as far as I know, he was. And I would ask him, you know, where we stand,
you know, have you heard anything, you know? And were you aware that Alex Foster put up a reward? And are you also aware that? When Paul was criminally charged and the voting case Alec came under criticism for interfering in the investigation, you remember that? And and in fact there’s been some pretty public allegations about that about that were had surfaced before Maggie and Paul had been murdered. Absolutely. I mean they were criticizing him for advising people stuff. But I’m a lawyer, I’m a parent. Daddy, one of my kids has some problem or gets accused of
something, or one of my friend’s kids. I’m going to put my lawyer hat on and advise them to be quiet until their parents get there. And. Get counsel if I think it’s a serious matter. You were asked about Alex’s cell phone use and and and about whether he would take the phone down to the kennel. Have you ever been down to the kennels without? OK have you been riding the property with mozelle without? A whole lot. I mean, it’s time went on, you know, our families got older and you just. When you don’t have children,
it’s you. You’re doing a lot more things together on the weekends and stuff. And if your children get older and they’re in college and he was going to Walford and different places where Buster was and you know your interests are different as well. But yeah, I would occasionally, or if he was building something, he might ask me. What I thought about it or show me something. I mean, I saw his duck pond, you know, rode around the property several times. Was cell phone coverage spotty down at the shed in the kennels. It can be it.
It varies. I mean it, it can be I I don’t remember specifically where and what. You know I do. Outward, I live. If I go in my house with the metal roof this morning, somebody was trying to talk to me and I had to walk out on the porch. Other days I can talk just fine. In my house, I live 8 miles, 9 miles from where this place is, and I don’t know whether some metal roof or whether I’m just at the end of. Of wherever our cell tower is. But it out in my area,
which is Rome Gully, it can it can be spotty. And and and and you mentioned about. Spending time at MOZELLE and and. When? The kids were younger did. Before Alex got mozelle you you had a farm and with Alec, bring the boys over to hunt on your property. Mostly Paul. I mean Buster would come some but Buster was older and and then obviously when Buster started college he he wasn’t around as much but Paul was very avid Hunter and. Was over it either my place or Ronnie’s place a lot and and he and Alex were
together a lot doing that. Ballot. I mean, excuse me, he and Paul, Alec and Paul together a lot. And and and Paul was with his grandfather a lot and I think you mentioned that. Paul would leave stuff over there, all three of them, but you know. They they would just. They leave a gun, they leave a coat, they leave a flashlight, maybe all three, and it was just sort of a running joke that they. You had to kind of go around and gather up their stuff after they left. And. That was just now. And did
you remember one time Paul had left the gun over there for a couple of months? He did. And I left one, one time I believe and I cleaned it and put it up and. He started asking around where his gun was and. You know, we just sort of. Played with him a little bit and then gave it back to him, right? I think you, you testified moving from September the 4th. You had gotten word about a shooting, bombing, Alec, and I think your words were. That ******* said. Killed himself. That was what I thought immediately.
And why did you think that because of all that had gone on, we had terminated him or he had resigned the day before this financial stuff was starting to come out. And you know, I thought, you know, he lost two family members and now he’s now he’s got no job. And. You know, it it it seemed feasible. I mean, I had been. Concerned about him, his mental health from the time of the murders up until then. In fact, I’d suggested that he go see somebody. For grief counseling for I mean we were all grieving their
loss and and. You know, it’s one of those deals that you just. You can tell when somebody’s not. Hitting on all cylinders and. He obviously was. I would come by his office and he would be crying, I mean, or I would ask him something. I remember him asking me one time when he was going through his, he had a stack of sympathy guards and he said, should I send them all back a note? And I said Elic, people don’t send you sympathy cards. To, you know, get a note back from you. There’s no way in
the world you can do that and. He said that he was terminated from the farm and and you were concerned about perhaps what he might do. Did you ever think? Maybe he’ll go kill a family member. Did that ever cross your mind? No. You’re talking about when we terminated him. Yes. But then by then, Maggie and Paul have been killed. Well, he had family out there. He did I I never. Thought of any of that? Listen when? When September the second hit. It changed everything that I knew about elic. I I would have never believed
that. A guy that you know. Was like family. Would have ever stolen from me, would have stolen from his family, would have stolen from his clients, or any of that. And so immediately you’re you’re. You’ve got this rage, this emotion that you’ve got. And then on the third we’ll go through this whole ordeal of the termination. And then the 4th it hits and you’re like, you know, did the ******* kill himself because of anything else? And then as time progressed on and you see the the scope of it, I mean, I don’t know the guy
that after September the 3rd and leading out, I don’t know. To that guy is. I mean, that’s not elect that I knew and elect that I loved and elect that all of us loved. You know, did he have imperfections? You bet. Did he do things that aggravated the hell out of me? You bet. But you you don’t kick your brother out the door because you know they snore at night or or you know, they’ve done things that aggravate you. You get past it. But when they do things that are criminal and they do things that
affect not only. Him. But he’s torn down an entire legacy of law firm. I’ve spent 34 years or 33 years, I guess, in this one place. It’s only law firm that I’ve ever worked at. I put everything in it. So all my children have known, my family’s known, and it’s gone. We had to change the name. We’ve had to do all these things. Because of his acts on this financial stuff. And and when it comes to that. I’m mad as hell. I mean, I you you just don’t know how mad I am. But on the
other hand. I’m not saying that because he did that. He’s done what he’s accused of and so that’s you know, that’s that’s sort of the bottom line of it, his, his. Actions that. I mean, he was doing that way back, but we never knew it. Sure. And and when we found out about it, it makes you doubt everything and it’s just human nature. But. I don’t have one shred of anything, all I can do is just point to what I saw. And and you pointed to the roadside shooting and what you saw. You thought that
******* tried to kill himself. Absolutely. And it may not. I may not have said ******* but it’s about us and not you. It made sense why he would want to kill himself in that moment. As far as I was concerned, he’d lost everything. He’d lost his job and he he’d lost. Forget the job, forget the money, forget what’s going to happen to him. He lost his wife and his child. And are you aware they had $12 million of life? I didn’t know what he had. I assumed he had some life insurance, but no, I mean
I didn’t. I never had that conversation with him and I quite frankly, I I’d have to see it to really believe it. Thank you. That’s all the questions. Recross. I think you just said that what you know now about this man had been your partner and friend for 34 years causes you to question everything you thought you knew about him in that right. You were asked about. All those clients that had to be repaid money and. None of that money came from him, did it? Y’all had to pay that money, right? We did. How much?
I would say. At this point, probably north of 10 or $11 million. Now the insurance paid for some of that, but that mean there’s been a substantial chunk of that that came out of our pocket. You were asked about Alec having some cases that were coming in. But you explained, though, that this is June. And that disbursement is not going to come to him until December. He’s not going to be able to get that money until December, correct. Any any of what he’s entitled to, which isn’t all of it, correct? Because it belongs to the
firm, right? Everything belongs to the firm until the end of the year when you meet and then you divide up money and. And that’s why he stole the Ferris field fees in March, because he needed the money right then, I would assume so. I mean the the money was gone. And it was paid in three checks. You said that in the month after the murders, he wasn’t really working on cases, but he sure managed to arrange to cover those Ferris fees to pay him back so that everyone forget about it, didn’t he? Or not all
of it. He managed to do that, didn’t he? Yeah, well, part of it. I mean, there think there was $192,000 that didn’t that he convinced Chris Wilson to cover for him. Convinced. Or Chris had to cover it. One of the two. You were asked about him cooperating with law enforcement and the murders. But he never told. Law enforcement that he was down at the kennels. Just minutes with the victims before they died. He never told law enforcement that, did he? I think it’s responsive to redirect. You can testify if you know. I don’t know what
he told law enforcement other than what’s been. Out there in the public. Well, let me ask you this. He denied to you three times that he ever went to those kennels, did he not? He did. His buddy, his friend and his law partner 34 years told you three times I was never there. That’s correct. And you know, now that’s a lie. When I saw them. Video month or so ago. Thank you, Mr. Ball. He stepped down.
